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news it is a very big deal joining us right now is Ark invest CIO and CEO Kathy Wood Tesla is of course the top holding of the arc Innovation ETF Kathy I you know we were discussing this just in the last hour it's it's a remarkable thing to I was listening to spaces yes you know Twitter spaces Elon Musk uh with with Mary Barra someone who has you know uh it has been very hard for her to even utter the the words Tesla over the years uh and here is this partnership what does it mean do you think long term both for Tesla but also for the Legacy uh Auto automakers GM and Ford well I think it's great for America and our transition to uh the electric future as uh as Elon said uh and I do think it increases the probability that our forecast of 60 million electric vehicle sales by 27.
uh it has increased the probability that that is right we had uh globally 7.7 electric vehicles sold around the world last year uh going to 60 million and is going to completely dominate the industry and I think having both General Motors and Ford on this charging Network which is the big gating Factor range anxiety uh gets us there that much faster so but so I think there's two questions some people would say great long-term short-term and long term for Ford and GM and everybody's a winner in this there are others that are concerned that say may be great for for Ford and GM short term I think there's almost no question about that the question is what happens long term if effectively two of the largest American um uh automakers are effectively driving sales effectively to Tesla both in terms of uh the electric power piece of it and effectively the advertisement that is a Tesla Tesla charging station what that means long term in terms of Elon musk's ability to sell more Vehicles potentially even at cheaper prices you know this this is reminds me of what happens with most technologies that proliferate and scale there's a standard and here we have a charging standard charging uh solves uh the range anxiety problem and what's also very interesting about this is it does help Tesla underwrite uh the the charging uh station expense because if you look at Tesla sales they are highly concentrated on the coasts uh now it's going to make a lot a lot more sense for Tesla to roll out charging stations that much faster throughout the country right how much of their revenue and profits do you now imagine over time will be a function of the infrastructure part of their business versus the automobile manufacturing part of their business well actually we think another Revenue source is going to be much bigger and of course that's the autonomous taxi platform uh and we think it's going to drive the valuation because the margins associated with autonomous uh are going to be sas-like so instead of electric vehicle gross margins in the 25 to 30 percent range we expect autonomous the platform strategy to deliver 80 90 margin so the combined will be north of 50 percent in terms of the of of the grid though that they're building and and these charging stations you you think that's a small part of the business and the services that they've been able to layer on at some of those stations uh we have not counted so we are in print at two thousand dollars uh in 2027 and we have not counted uh the possible Revenue sources associated with this strategy and we haven't even done much in the uh energy storage business uh away from electric electric vehicles because we think the most valuable part of the business will be the scaling of vehicles in it to create this autonomous taxi platform Kathy the other big news of the week uh and there are two parts of it one included you in it uh but uh was the SEC uh filing a civil case against coinbase on the back of that you picked up some more shares of coinbase what what's your thesis and are you effectively betting against the government no we're actually betting on the checks and balances inherent in our government so you've got Gary Gensler who's appointed by the executive branch has to be ratified by the Senate but we now have the judicial system and the legislative system uh studying and getting involved in this topic and I think it's great uh I think we're going to end up in the right place right now uh the SEC regulation and uncertainty around it is chasing uh digital asset business away from this country and I think I think the legislative branch understands it this will be an election year issue and I think the judicial branch is is very interesting in terms of you know the Voyager binance case uh uh you know the judge basically said SEC you what are you doing you can't prevent the sale of assets from this company to this company the grayscale case uh seems very logically going grayscale's way so hopefully we get a Bitcoin ETF and even the Ripple case uh Gensler did not mention or the SEC did not mention Ripple among the Securities in these suits so so that's very interesting as well but Kathy is your investment thesis when it comes to coinbase based on the idea that you think the Judiciary will reign in the SEC um I think that between the judicial process and the legislative process and perhaps an election year I think this is an election year issue uh that they will weigh in in a way uh that gives us much more clarity in terms of Regulation and the pathway to registration which is one of the things that Brian Armstrong has been saying okay tell us how to do it and you know he's just been facing a stone wall so let's get some of these answers let's get clarity right the more hits uncertainty and I think in the next year we'll get a lot more certain Kathy though what do you think I mean when you look at the upside downside on coinbase in terms of what this suit could mean to the extent they were to lose this case how much do you think they could lose this is going to go to the courts and be in the courts for years and years if this needs to go to the Supreme Court Brian Armstrong has said it will go to the Supreme Court and we think it is that important meanwhile we have binance uh which is in uh in in much more trouble from the sec's point of view uh than coinbase is uh coinbase uh and and binance uh are um the suit is about Securities uh on their exchange and not being registered and and that sort of thing and uh but binance now is being accused by the SEC of some FTX like Behavior which is very interesting and I see this morning in the binance U.S has stopped uh has stopped Fiat deposits which from a market share point of view uh is a benefit to coinbase we hope this all gets settled in the next year uh and and we do hope that binance is has has not done some of these things and uh and that the crypto and we're starting to use the words digital assets as opposed to crypto because that's more understandable as um parents and grandparents see their children actually buying digital assets uh away from cryptocurrencies in some of their favorite games Gary Gensler says dollars are digital I mean you know they're conflating everything now okay I don't know if you saw that yesterday he said he said because most dollars aren't in circulation and they're on on uh you know they're they're just entries that they're digital I don't I don't know where that got the conversation but one thing I think will help clarify things and I think as it go this goes through the legislative process this is more of what you'll hear uh what the internet Financial system is doing and that's what the crypto ecosystem is building in the layer that but the architects of the internet did not include in the early days of the internet as we were building it out in the 90s and that is the financial layer instead what do we have today the traditional Financial system for a merchant to get a good from his uh his store online website to a customer there are nine steps two of them are the merchant and consumer seven are toll takers anywhere from Two and a Half to four percent the internet will make the the financial system so much more efficient and I think as as individuals uh begin to understand that it will become much more acceptable and and we'll Delight the consumer and that's what Kathy let me ask you a separate question um just on the currencies themselves um Bitcoin by the way trading right now 26 566 dollars we've had many a conversation about your expectations about the value of Bitcoin five hundred thousand dollars I believe was uh the last number that you had put out in terms of where you thought this could go I I think you thought that was several years away uh do you want to update us on where you think Bitcoin is that change under this dynamic so um in our big Ideas 2023 it's on our website uh arc-invest.com uh you'll find our uh our our digital asset forecast so um we we expect uh the Bitcoin price our base case is 600 000 plus our bull case is more than one million dollars and I think as time goes on what's the timeline for that Kathy twenty Thirty twenty Thirty twenty Thirty twenty Thirty and uh you know this is a very big idea this is the first Global private no government oversight uh uh digital rules-based monetary system and there's a lot of discipline here in the mathematical metering to get would you agree Kathy In fairness and you've been very bullish obviously in Bitcoin for quite some time and I think we've had conversations over the years where you had much higher expectations about where big coin would be today meaning if we went back and looked you know two or three years ago conversations you would have talked about Bitcoin being much higher I imagine than twenty six thousand dollars right are you disappointed in where things are and has that changed something really important happened very recently during the Regional Bank crisis if you will notice the Regional Bank stocks were imploding and Bitcoin went from 19 000 up to roughly thirty thousand I got to so what was that that was a flight to safety a flight to safety think about that and we think all of innovation is going to be a flight to safety we talked about Tesla before flight to safety accelerate uh the the movement onto these this charging platform make it a National Standard let's all do this together flight to safety so uh I think you know our our strategies uh you mentioned arkk actually arkq holds more Tesla that's our autonomous technology and Robotics strategy we we believe that all of these uh all of our funds which have been hurt very badly by interest rates going up over the last few years that they are going to benefit from the deflationary ramifications Innovation and well we'll have to talk about that Andrew there's deflationary pressures Kathy want to thank you you remember us this morning Tom Lee Tom Lee we're at 4 000 on bitcoin and he said it's going back to 20 and we wondered why would you ruin your reputation playing around with a forecast of 20 grand on bitcoin some people have been right some people but there were people at 16.
26 500 right and go and look at what all the people at 60 000 who were trying to get people I got I got interested at 8 000 and as low as four thousand twenty six thousand I remember having a conversation saying I don't know if it's a buy at 24. okay we'll see all right it's been the best the best performing asset across all asset classes in the last 15 years when we come back Dr Stock Gottlieb will join us stick around
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