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welcome back to our special show lessons in investing I have with me investing guru Marc Mobius who is a man with a new mission he's the author of this book invest for good and what he's saying is that when you're investing don't just look at balance sheets you have to look at whether companies are environmentally conscious socially conscious and if they have good governance now you know a mark let me come back to the growth issue because growth is at a premium is all available in global economies and we got a shocker in terms of the GDP number being as low as 5% lowest in six years so do you think that you know this is a worry in India now let me first ensure that growth is there there's no question in my mind that from a long-term perspective India will continue to grow a good pace yes we have a hiccup now mainly because a lot of the reforms have not been moving fast enough and there was a lot of confusion regarding taxation and by the way when we talk about governance we're not only the only talking about corporate governance but we're also talking about state governance government governments in other words the the government has got to apply consistent policies that would be acceptable to the society and will help the society grow and I think that is going to be happening with the Modi we revolution that you're seeing here in India okay but what sense since you are such a man with your feet on the ground talking to companies what gives you a feeling that this is a transient phase do you think this 5% growth or 8% nominal growth can be corrected quickly I think it can be corrected within a year or two with new policies coming in new infrastructure spending by the government and most importantly clarity on taxation this is the biggest concern that I've been hearing among businessmen both domestically internationally what is the government regarding the government policy regarding capital gains tax and other axis let's make it very clear and consistent so they're not many many changes coming along the way you know you're also seeing a lot of technological disruption I mean automobiles are not selling we understand that's only partly because of people not having money but also because you know there is a electrical disruption electrical vehicle deception the Millenial disruption so do you think that these will pass or are we in for the long haul with said it growth the internet revolution the technological revolution as well I mean the Internet is just one small part of this whole technical object technological revolution which is incredible it's hitting every country in the world particularly India because India is starting from a low base in many industries is going to be leapfrogging into much higher technology that means disruption it means people being laid off from their work it means new people being hired to take new positions so there's a lot of this that's taking place in India that will be very very important going forward for that reason companies that have to pay a lot of attention to what the new generation is saying because they are internet savvy they know what's going on they have more information that we never had when we were young so you have a new generation that's creating a revolutionary environment both in terms of their behavior and in terms of their expectations from government and companies but is the new generation as ESG savvy I mean our older generation were liberals I mean all over the world Trump is very different from the previous liberal presidents liberalism is probably taking a back foot do you fear that the Millennials will be as worried about ESG the Millennials are even more worried and they're more concerned one things we found among the new generation is that they very aware of the need for improvements in the environment improvements in the social fabric of society and improvement in governance in general terms so that is one of the hopeful signs new generation is very very aware well that's good to come back to the growth issue and you spoke about taxes recently the Indian government rolled back that extra tax on foreign investors registered as trusts doesn't that set your mind dry set your mind at rest with respect to tax issues it was a very good move and it's very helpful but you must remember foreign investments take a longer-term view without say look is this for real how long this could be another change so I think it'll take maybe a half year for this to sort of sink in and people to realize okay this is good we're going to be a change for this for the longer term and then I'll be coming back in again okay what about you know the fact that the minute the current government has a minister for water resources I mean Narendra Modi has even in a speed is term spoken about cleanliness SWAT cheetahs we call it that was one of his missions in India does the current government tick the boxes for ESG for you well that's one that's a very good example of where they have someone in charge of water resources because it's so critical when you look in the environment water resources of one of the key points that you have to focus on so the fact that they are selecting people to look diligently at these areas is very very hopeful and of course that leads to hygiene he leads into fewer diseases it leads into many many other things that are very important for society you know as part of this the government also has been concerned about growth and one of the things they've recently announced is that we've this about 20 public sector banks and they're trying to reduce the number and some mergers have been announced would you think that will make a big difference or is that a very marginal kind of repair no I think that will make a very big difference because first of all let's talk about regulation it's gonna be much much easier to regulate fewer banks than all these smaller banks that are in the hinterland be very difficult to access so I think that's one good point the other good point is that these banks will be stronger their capital base will be stronger so they'll be able to loans in a more objective than aggressive way and I think that is very critical okay no you know there are a lot of people saying you know week plus week will remain a big week Bank you know and many of the banks have had this huge NPA problem or bad loan problem would you want banks to be recast completely in terms of ownership governance selection power of the board very very important and that's why I hope that the government will think about privatizing more of these banks when I talk about privatizing I don't say that the government gets out completely in other words the government can still remain 51% majority shareholder but then sell the rest of the shares to the public so that they can be more governance in other words they can be more surveillance of what's going on in the bank I think that's very very important okay you know they have announced a few other things in terms of a quicker repayment of the GST input credit faster payments coming from government and some investment ideas as well you think that's enough to remove two truf out the economy or do you think this is going to be more u-shaped you know it will be slow for a longer that's one very important element particularly for the smaller businessmen now they need that cash and the faster you can get back to them the better and that's why Modi's programs of digitalization of getting people to use digital economy digital resources is very very important because that means that monies can be flowing much much faster back to these smaller businesses okay well when you were looking at ESG companies I mean what has been the availability of companies in India is it more difficult to find socially environmentally responsible governance standard companies in India visa we most other emerging markets how would in your compare India is good but in the sense that the great thing is that most businessmen here are aware what's happening globally because they speak and read English so they can pick up the financial time so they can pick newspapers from Singapore Hong Kong wherever in the world in the US and understand what's going on globally and be aware of the ESG so it's very easy for us to go into a company in India and talk about ESG because they've heard about it they know about sustainability in other countries sometimes more difficult because there's a language barrier so I would say India's maybe a little better than others but their problems everywhere you know we have to really search out do you think the capital markets regulator himself or herself could give some extra points for to the mutual funds after they are the regulator of the mutual funds is there any way the regulator can be involved in ensuring governance standards or in ensuring that mutual funds insurance standards that's a great idea and in fact it would be wonderful if said we could institute a program to rank funds as regards to the ESG availability yes actually it said he has been a very good watchdog recently we had instances of probably some funds giving almost like equity capital to promoters and they have come down very heavily on on them because those problems are so facing they are not companies promoters with the best governance standards but quite separately when you look survey the Indian terrain now are you well where is the investment idea the GDP numbers are showing that consumption has slowed to three percent and investment gross fixed capital formation has slowed to four percent so where are you looking for ideas actually sits in those areas where the opposite bazaar in fact I was just talking to an investor this morning and and they said gee this is a great time to be investing because so many of these companies are down the news is not good as regards to capital investment in terms of growth and all the rest of the factors but we know from a long-term point of view these companies will probably do very well so what we want to do is look at these companies in detail find out how their capital structure is is it safe to get in the governance standards good do they listen shelters are they paying dividends the of faxes that we look at and say okay they may be slow now but going forward there'll be a good company once the economy picks up again so is Mobius Capital Partners now very actively looking at buying I have you already put in some of the cash we've got oh definitely India is right at the top of our country breakdown for the funds okay and you prefer consumer goods or you prefer by consumer goods but we also like some of the industrial companies some companies that are making goods for infrastructure because as you know the government is gonna be spending a lot of money on infrastructure okay well since I have an investment guru with me I just need to I mean I'm sure even government policy makers of watching the show and wanting to listen to you how much of the slowdown is you know endogenous is our own making and how much is because the world is anyway slowing it's I would say 5050 it's a 50% is problems internally and 50% is the external environment that china-us trade dispute and so forth which by the way I try to emphasize people is an opportunity for India who's India can begin taking over some of the manufacturing that has been going on in China and India is probably one of the well really the only other country that has the manpower to be able to make apple computers and all kinds of other equipment that is needed for the Americans so I think there's a great opportunity dude it's a 50% is an endogenous problem what can what do you want to see sit right clarity on taxation number one and in fact reduction of taxation because this is one of the things that you have to realize that if you you know the famous Laffer curve if you reduce taxation you're gonna get better growth and at the end you'll probably get more money coming into the government so that's number one number two a faster exposure of what's happening on the infrastructure I know as I travel around India I see lots of infrastructure but nobody knows about it it hasn't been publicized this is something that has to be publicized and then bringing in foreign investors into the infrastructure projects so they they can add their expertise and knowledge of what what is a good way to operate those areas okay well of course you go to invest for good and invest in ESG companies but give us an idea in the next two years what kind of return on equity can you expect we're looking at about 15% return it could be 15% IOU hope hope and don't forget when we say invest for good we say for good meaning long term in other words taking a long term view not a one-year or two-year but a five-year view okay this is an extremely interesting bookmark obvious it was a pleasure speaking with you and may your tribe increase may there be more investors who are conscious that they're investing in companies that I'm an environmentally conscious socially aware and are opting for good governance that's how much is ESG now is it like 25 trillion or at least at least and growing very rapidly okay well may your tribe increase and may there be more trillions poured into ESG companies thank you very much for joining us thank you
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