저자: Marko · 외국인
요약 보기
화이트보드 파이낸스 Marko가 부동산 투자를 중단하고 임대 중인 이유를 설명. 클리블랜드 교외 가격이 역대 최고 수준이라 현재는 고가로 판단해 관망하며 현금을 보유 중. 부채는 없고 현금흐름 기반으로 생활. 향후 20% 계약금으로 영구 거주용 주택 매입 계획을 언급. 삶의 안정과 목적 중시 메시지. 자산 가격에 대한 단기 예측은 없음.
다듬은 글
부동산 투자 대신 임대를 택한 이유
so I heard white board finance is done with a real estate that really pisses me off so I'm heading over...
이 문단은 원문 자막이 대부분 제 목소리가 아니라 시청자 인사와 영상 도입이라 여기서는 원문을 살려 옮깁니다.
Hey everybody, welcome back to Whiteboard Finance. Today I'm going to be talking about Meet Kevin. This guy right here, man, he's always on YouTube. I see his notifications all day long. Love his work, but I got a bone to pick with him, man. The reason I stopped investing in real estate.
Oh, Marco. Oh yo, what is this? We need to have a conversation about real estate. Let's go get your jacket. Let's go, I'm going to edit this video. We'll be back to set the stage.
화이트보드 파이낸스 마르코의 부동산 이력
Marco with Whiteboard Finance used to be a licensed real estate agent, and he worked for a commercial real estate developer and also partnered on some of the projects. However, now he doesn't own real estate anymore. This makes me very sad.
Keep going. Right now you don't own any real estate?
No, we rent right now.
Okay, correct. So why don't you just buy something right now? Look, we're literally in this neighborhood. There's got to be... how much were these houses? These are probably 350. These are gorgeous, 2,500 to 3,000 square foot.
Oh, bigger than that.
Yeah, yeah. So what's stopping you from jumping on one of these? What do you need, $15K?
You're coming from Cali. We're in the Midwest right now, so everything is cheap relatively speaking. I also still have access to the MLS to this day. I worked for a death care company, funerals, everything. Every major event in your life, I've worked.
No, no, no. A funeral... it was Airbnb meets LendingTree for death care. It was crazy.
Wow, I have to take a moment to wrap my head around that. Are you renting out coffins?
Oh, get off that. So, ultimately, I have access to the MLS, everything. Right now the record prices per square foot, at least where I live, and I'm sure it's like that in the rest of the country. So I did a little research, looked at 2008 prices up until now. 2007, 2008 prices were sky-high, then after 2008, in 2013, I think that's when they were the softest. Houses in Northeast Ohio... we're in this area, which is a decent middle-class suburb in Cleveland. We're going for about $105, $106 a square foot. Now everything's on average $115, $120, $125. It's worth it.
비싼 집값과 지금 사지 않는 이유
So you feel like things are pricey. Why buy? They're overpriced right now because interest rates are low and everyone's buying. I just don't think the bang for the buck is there, and that's why my wife and I are waiting.
Now, what's stopping you from going out there and at least being ready to strike on a good deal? You have real estate experience. You're here when 91% of buyers are down here. So you have this experience. What's stopping you from looking for a good deal on a triplex, or even a fixer-upper? You know how bad it's going to be. These are from 2005, mostly.
Yeah, a hundred percent. You're a hundred percent right. Ultimately, I do have... I have a stack of letters this big to owner-occupant, or excuse me, absentee owners of duplexes. I'm not sending them out. I should, because I'm like everybody else. I was so motivated for like three hours, and then I thought, the list itself, the actual printing and everything. I went to ListSource and I literally have a list of absentee owners. The list itself is like $30, $40, $50, whatever their minimum is to print a list. So for your viewers in the future: check out ListSource if you want to find absentee owners.
Absolutely. For those who don't know what that is, absentee owners are basically people that own the home but don't live there. You know that by the different tax mailing address. So I was going to send out these mailers, but I thought, these are in like Class B, arguably Class A suburbs, and these are probably cash buyers. Right now the market is hot. Why would they want to sell, or why would they want to give me a deal? So maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot.
현금 보유와 안전 지대
You're jaded yourself.
I am. And you have MLS access, you have more access and more knowledge than anybody else, yet you're sitting on... what was it, the Capital One savings account?
Yeah. Sorry, I know I'm looking down this whole interview. We're like an ice patch trying to save Kevin. So sorry if I'm not making good eye contact.
Yes, you're right. So right now we're just sitting on cash. Cash is king. We're very happy, we're cash flowing, my wife's cool. So at the end of the day, that's the reason I'm not buying anything right now. That's not to say you can't get a good deal. Financing is cheap. If you're working with someone like Kevin, or whoever your local real estate agent is, they should be able to show you the math on how much you're saving with interest rates being so low, as opposed to them being high.
Let me ask you this. Is there maybe a level of comfort in your life right now? You've got a solid income, your wife's working toward becoming an RN, she's going to have a solid income. You're sitting on a cushion. Your life wouldn't be any better by investing more right now, so you may as well stay a little comfortable. That's ultimately what it comes down to.
We have literally zero debt. Literally zero debt. Cash flowing everything. We're cash flowing our debts, like school tuition. We're not taking student loans, we're just paying it off.
Oh yeah, expensive. Yes.
Not income, yes. So basically it's the comfort, and we have no reason to move. I know dividend stocks aren't going to be a big cash flow, no, that's not what I'm talking about. She's studying to be a nurse practitioner. She's an RN right now. So there's no reason to move. If, knock on wood, one day we have kids, great, we'll need to upgrade the size of our house. But for us, right now, we're comfortable.
부채 없는 삶과 "좋은 빚" 논쟁
Yeah, I think in one sense you're in a very good and happy place. Correct. By being comfortable, on one hand, you're not paycheck to paycheck, you're not miserable, you're not stressed out by money. On the other hand, maybe you're not getting that kind of kick in the butt to go invest a little.
Exactly. And I don't want to use the word spoiled, because everything we've done to this point has been intentional. We don't want debt. However, check out the video I'm dropping tonight. I don't know when this will be released, but I have a video coming out talking about good debt versus bad debt, which I know you're a big believer in.
I have good debt? Yes. I have no bad debt, which is good, but I don't have any good debt either. So, as everyone knows, debt is just like a tool. There are hawks, there are eagles, there is a woodpecker. I saw a woodpecker the other day, he had a big red head, like Woody the Woodpecker.
Okay, all right. Good day, Betty. You don't have any debt. I got that.
20% 계약금으로 집 한 채 마련할 계획
All right. Basically, where I am right now is I may do the foolish thing of dropping 20%, a big down payment, on a forever home. What does it matter, in some sense, because you're just saving up cash right now anyway. So may as well put 20% down. I don't want the PMI, I don't want any of that stuff. However, I know my money could be utilized elsewhere at a greater return. However, I don't want the PMI.
Yep, exactly. And the debt-to-income ratio, I don't want it to go crazy either. So 20% down, I'll be happy. You'll start to see new Whiteboard videos from a nicer basement, I guess.
Why? Here's another thing that's tripping me up a little. You're saying you want to go from where you are now, which is renting, to your forever home. Why? It's the opposite. It's a crazy dynamic. I understand there's the philosophy out there that renting, houses are liabilities, not assets, the ones you own. That's not a stupid philosophy.
Yeah, right. And I know you're against that, but that's what Grant Cardone is in the world. Am I allowed to say that name?
You could say Grant Cardone all you want, because he also owns where he lives.
Okay. So he rents from his LLC.
Okay. Basically, I'm from Northeast Ohio. I have deep roots here. I'm not going anywhere. If you want to rent, if you're going to be mobile, if you want to be mobile for work, if you don't want all the maintenance issues and to be the person who takes care of every single little thing, owning a property is a big deal. I understand that. However, I know I'm not going anywhere. So I know this is going to be my home probably till the day I die. My wife's family is from here, my family's from here. We have deep cultural roots with our church and our family and all that stuff. So we want to own property because ultimately it's a kind of pride and ownership thing. It's also almost like a forced savings plan. At the end of the day, whatever happens to us, whether we have Social Security or a pension or whatever, we still own our home, and we can always sell it for a nice fat paycheck 20, 30, 40 years later. Mathematically it may not make sense, but there is a sense of pride that we do want to own our home here.
점진적으로 큰 집으로 옮기는 방법
Here's the other direction a lot of people go. They say, okay, we've made the decision we want to buy, whether it's 5%, 10%, 20% down, doesn't matter. We'll set that aside right now. What a lot of people do is say, okay, that house right there, let's say it's 1,600 square feet, and the one to the right is 2,400, and the one to the right of that is 3,000. Just as an example. There's a theory now: if each of these would cash flow with 20% down, which pretty much everything here does in Ohio, I've realized, why not buy that place with 20% down now, keep it rental-grade, then in a year's time move into that place with 20% down, a year later move into that one, nearly move again, and move into your forever home when you have a few kids or they're a little older, when you have the flexibility of moving. You keep those deals as rentals. Instead of one nest egg when you're retired, you've got four or five. And you're 100% right.
Obviously, we're in a suburb that's excellent, excellent school system, no crime, nothing. The thing is, you're 100% right. The thing is, happy wife, happy life. My wife doesn't want to go from, let's call it a thousand-square-foot house, to fifteen hundred, to a 2,000-square-foot one, whatever. We want to get it done right off the bat, and that way we have a 30-year mortgage on a reasonable property. And the thing is, it's lifestyle inflation. If we do have all these cash-flowing properties that pay for our forever home mortgage, or whatever you want to call it, mathematically that may make sense. However, it's human nature to want to get bigger, better, and nicer.
We're in a "10x" society right now. I'm not trying to use that word to promote Grant or demote Grant. That's just our society right now. Our society says, if you're in that 1,700, you need to get to the 2,200, and you need to get to the 3,000s. That's first of all not good for individuals, I think, because you're constantly stressed comparing yourself to others. Honestly, I thought you were actually very insulated from that by having this wealth cushion, or cash cushion, let's call it, and no debt. Because who cares if somebody else has a bigger number in the bank account? You don't care. "Oh, they've got twenty rentals as well, they've got twenty-one." It doesn't matter.
Okay, am I getting that right? Is that what you want, that peacefulness, that freedom?
There's a joke I can tell. It's too long, it's not going to be funny, but the point is, there's a gentleman fishing, enjoying himself. Another guy comes up and says, hey, why don't you get a net? You can catch bigger fish, sell them, work your way all the way up to a big fishery. You own this big fishery making millions a year. And the guy who's originally fishing says, well, why would I want to do all that? He's like, well, then you can become a millionaire and retire and do whatever you want. And the guy fishing says, well, I'm doing that right now.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
은퇴의 의미와 목적의식
So without going through all the headache, honestly, don't you know these lines? I'm going to start taking notes. Excellent. But honestly, how true is that? Look right now, there are so many people in our society who are in this position: they've built wealth, enough to retire today, but they don't. A lot of people who aren't in that position say, I can't wait to be in that position where I have my five-million-dollar net worth so I can retire. I want to get there at 40, retire early, financially independent, and then just live off my distributions. What happens, I think, is probably 95% of people get to that point, and then it's like you're always on this hamster wheel. I think the goal shouldn't be to retire just for the sake of retiring. If you love what you're doing, work till you die. That's great, it's healthy, if you want to do that. However, I think young people are enamored by the allure of passive income, where you don't have to lift a finger and then you're a millionaire. So I think every person should have a purpose, a reason for why they get up in the morning. Otherwise, in the Midwest, where everyone's friendly, they can just be molded into pretty much anything, or not have any drive. That's my personal belief.
Working with someone like you, or with this guy Kevin, who's a hundred miles an hour... I'm sitting there like, I need coffee. He's like, yeah, try to keep up.
So yeah, it's good to be passionate about something. That's what I'm trying to say. Thanks for that.
영상 잡담: 석면과 크리스마스트리
This is by the way really cool. They used to cover Christmas trees in asbestos to make them look like they had snow back in the day. Yeah, that was one of the purposes for asbestos. They also used to put asbestos into toothpaste. You could get it in your face, you can breathe it. This is cool. You want to taste some? No, no. That's why I went for the tree snow. The odds are the tree snow is cleaner. Except we'll probably get some comments talking about birds and whatever.
돈보다 중요한 것: 만족과 삶의 태도
Okay, well, honestly, that's really insightful, because I think that's what many of us feel. It's like, I just... it doesn't matter what the number is. I just want to get to that point where I have the choice to do what I want. This whole relativity thing doesn't matter. Yet on one hand we say that, and on the other hand most of us have to get the new car, a bigger house, the newest phone, the newest clothing. Tough, man, tough.
So yeah, I just listened to a keynote with Ramit saying, "I will teach you to be rich." You don't like him, well, mostly because of his real estate chapter. The rest of the stuff was okay. His real estate chapter was garbage. The crux of his keynote was, he's making fun of people. Like, "if you invested this over the course of 87 years compounded at 3%," everyone's typical line. But he's kind of right. His point was that you should actually spend abundantly on things that bring you massive joy. Not everything, but yeah, that's a good point. Because I think people get caught up in "I need passive income but I have no wealth" approach, and then the idea becomes, okay, if I want passive income and I don't have wealth, I'll just cut out all the joys of my life and basically be a super cheapskate. That's a tough way to live. You're stressed on the other side of the perspective.
Yep. I completely agree. At the end of the day, you have to live life. You have to be a warm human being. Go buy a round of drinks, do something, have some friends. You don't want to be known as the cold guy. I'm pretty cold, right? I'm freezing my butt off. Maybe if I buy you drinks for a month, that's... yes. So just be the person people want to hang out with. At the end of the day, you only live once. I know that's kind of cliché, I don't want to say YOLO, but YOLO within reason, I guess.
Thank you, man. That's awesome. All right, confrontation's over. It's been solved.
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