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Let's go deeper in and our tech spotlight. I'm so glad to be joined by Dan Ives, global head of tech research managing director Wedbush Securities. It is great to see you a record day on Wall Street. Why have you been so right every time there's pullbacks and people say no way no how and you say No, let me tell you like it really is.
Um why are you so right? I know you do a lot of channel checks and you've gotten it right over and over again on these tech names. Dan Ives, congratulations to you. Good to see you. No, it's great to see you and then Nicole as always thanks for that. Look, um it comes down to checks. Like if you're not talking to customers, if you're not in Asia understand the supply chain, you're sort of going blind, right?
And then you just look at the tape and you look at sort of the the bears that have called eight of the last two downturns the last 20 years and you get caught up in it. And like look, we just got back from a two-week Asia trip, right? So, to me that's what I focus on. I try to tune the noise out and ultimately determine who the winners are going to be and that's really hand-holding investors through it.
That continues to be the key. I want to work backwards and talk about some of your out perform ratings which include Oracle. Which names are you really pounding the table on today? I mean today it's really it's pound here. It's IBM Microsoft here. It's Nvidia. It's CrowdStrike, Palantir. The the the and of course, you know, Tesla and Apple.
But I mean those are the ones if I kind of had to think about it, those are the ones that I think stick out. Understood. Let's talk about I'll go to Palantir. There was a time that who was it? Michael Burry or they were saying short it forget it. You know, and the president actually was touting Palantir.
Is Palantir definitely sound sound setting and has a lot of growth potential to how high? I mean, that was a fictional narrative that the the kinds of anthropics you Palantir's. Well, Palantir I think is a trillion dollar market cap next 2 3 years. And look at it and that's my view. I mean, when I look at Palantir, I think sort of base case is, you know, 2 to 225 as we've talked about.
2 to 225 trillion dollar market cap next 2 to 3 years. Um, let's talk about a name like Tesla. We've heard a lot about Tesla. Um, and so now obviously we're going to have Elon Musk versus Sam Altman in court next week. You have SpaceX which maybe is SpaceX going to buy Tesla? Do you think SpaceX gets Tesla under the umbrella before the IPO?
I really would like to know what you think about that. not before the IPO. So, I think SpaceX IPO, you know, in the summer. And then I'd expect a merger with Tesla in 2027 first half. Really? that's sort of our view. I know I I look at it something because I think that's the step process that they'll go through in terms of you go public and then ultimately a merger with Tesla.
I got to tell you I think 80% 90% type of chance. All right. What about your $600 target? Still at the $600 mark because you're focusing more on robo taxis and Optimus humanoid robots? Is that why? And energy I guess? That's exactly Look, I mean, I view it as you have to see around the corner. And look, I get the criticism in terms of, you know, where they raised CapEx and you look at deliveries that have sort of been stable but obviously not blowing anyone away.
This comes down to they are step-by-step building out what I believe will be one of the videos, the best physical AI play in the world. And that is my focus in terms of where that's all heading. And And I think when I think about autonomous robotics, that alone could be an incremental one to trillion of market
What did you think of Meta's layoffs? More this year or from last year? They had some last year and more this year. What do you think of that? I mean, I think look, and we're seeing Microsoft, right? In terms of essential what they're doing as well. But you have to also remember, Nicole, as much as this will get the headlines, I mean, think about how many employees they hired.
They almost hired a small city of employees going back from like COVID to today. So, yeah, there is They're definitely cutting in terms of certain areas. Now, obviously, they're focused on from a CapEx AI build out. But when they normalize, Meta will be hiring. Like, you know, it's like this is not I I I think there's a there's a wrong narrative that these companies just going to cut cut cut cut cut.
Cuz ultimately, what's going to determine their success? It's what goes up and down the elevator every day. So much investing in Anthropic. I mean, even today, Google plans to invest up to $40 billion in Anthropic. Anthropic, a lot of folks are differentiating Anthropic because of a good balance sheet versus OpenAI, which obviously is lacking in on the balance sheet.
That's what they tell me. You tell me. Why so much investing in in Anthropic? And when you think about the two IPOs, do they both come to market? And is Anthropic the better balance sheet? Look, I think they're both going to be extremely successful. Look, right now, there's no doubt. I mean, Claude's the best model in the world.
And And I don't I don't even think there's debate. But when it comes to Anthropic, that's why you continue to see all the investment dollars. But OpenAI, when When comes to the enterprise, I could argue open AI has probably an advantage maybe over Anthropic getting into the enterprise. So, I think you can view this is just you know, an Apollo Creed versus Rocky or Drago type situation.
There's going to be many benefits in this. And in the reality is Anthropic and Open AI we're talking about two tech stalwarts that are going to be key as they ultimately go public along with SpaceX. Have you had a frustration with Apple? A lot of folks were so frustrated they were not keeping up with AI.
So, you have now a changing of a guard. You have John Ternus coming in. He's been at the company for a couple of decades. He was the hardware chief. It's been lagging behind the other AI peers. So, what now? What are the expectations for John Ternus? Is this a good move? Was this a good choice? Great choice and why?
Well, well, great choice in terms of he was always I think groomed to be the CEO. Now, in terms of the timing, the timing was obviously a surprise. Look, Apple, there's no doubt that the frustration's been there because they have not monetized when it comes to AI, but no one has an install base like Apple.
They're essentially a toll collector on the consumer AI highway. And I think it starts off this at June WWDC where they're going to lay out the strategy and you're going to now start to see what ultimately will be subscription services and Apple will I think Ternus will start the AI chapter at Apple.
But, look, Cook, we're talking about a Mount Rushmore Hall of Fame CEO. You don't replace one of the most global public personas not just in corporate America, but global. And I think Ternus is really going to have to focus on hardware, but also on software services. And so, when you look at other names, I mean, CrowdStrike and Palo Alto and you think about cybersecurity, um obviously a lot of growth there particularly for those names.
I think those are the most disconnected narratives of any software company in terms of on cybersecurity. I mean, what what CrowdStrike are doing, the Cash Palo Alto, obviously Zscaler and others. The reality is budgets are going from 5% of IT budgets to cybersecurity 10%. Surface area is increasing, agents are increasing, and Tropic's not replacing a CrowdStrike or Palo Alto.
And I think those Nicole, those will be probably go down as the most disconnected names relative to this Anthropic AI ghost theory. And what name could be replaced? Is there one you're worried about? Look, I mean, when you think about the UiPaths, the monday.coms, I mean, the hubs. Yeah, I mean, they're ones that that obviously are on the wrong side of it.
Adobe's in the wrong side of it. But look, Adobe's not just sitting on a treadmill, just letting everyone eat their lunch. I mean, look at the changes they're making, the buyback managing changes and other. Look, and you're going to see a lot of consolidation. But to But for some of these companies to just say that they're done in the third inning of a nine-inning game, I think that's the wrong That's the wrong call to make.
And I think it just should Look everything that's happened with Intel. Look at everything that's happened on the hardware side. Guess where eventually that's flowing. Software, hyperscaler use cases. I just have a last question. I know that you said that Tesla was morphing into a physical AI stalwart.
Every single day I have news on AI, one investing in the other, advancements, collaborations, monetization, whatever. What piece of news in the last 7 days you said, "Yes, that's so great. I love it. I love it." What What did you hear this week that you said, "Wow, I really love it. I mean look, I think when you when we go through and we're going through earnings, if you if you just put the pieces of the puzzle together from Intel to Tesla to SAP to what I think we're going to see next week with big tech.
I think that's Look, we've talked about on the show, Nasdaq 25,000. The haters thought you'd never get Nasdaq 20,000. Then 25,000. And Toplin's going to be wearing the Nasdaq 30,000 at one point in the next 12 months. [gasps] All right, well, we look forward to celebrating with you. Dan Ives, it's always great to see you.
Another great shirt that I love. Thank you so much. I know you've had a long day today and I really appreciate that you're with me here, Dan. I appreciate that. Dan Ives, global head of tech research, managing director, Wedbush Securities.
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