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here I'll tell you I'll tell you an even more explicit signal we he pitched Us in that 17 billion dollar round and I did a zoom with him and after the zoom I'm like this doesn't make much sense but I'll have my team do some work we did some work and we sent him a two-page deck and we said here are our recommendations for taking the next step one was the formation of a board the second was the creation of dual class doc the third was some reps and warranties around Affiliated transactions and related party transactions and the person that worked there called us back in literally I'm not I'm not kidding you said go [ __ ] yourself was quote unquote the response to us we're like okay so that was the easy decision but message received message received but I still thought okay I'll just put that in the bucket if these guys are unbelievably arrogant and smug but Brian I thought what you thought which is maybe it's because they've print they've created some money making machine in the Bahamas and so they they have that level of it of confidence you know I it but then to see this thing to the extent of which is now we're only scratching the surface guys you know that we're going to find out stuff every day I think the problem is bigger than FTX uh and I'll say the uncomfortable part out loud and nobody needs to necessarily comment if you don't want to but there were an enormous number of venture firms that talk their their way into just completely doing zero work here I mean and the the tip of the spear is this thing uh well who's the guy that works at Founders fund bulgar bulgar is thank you yeah yeah that tweet that he had where he basically took the snapshot of the Sequoia transcript was one of the funniest things that I've ever seen I mean this was a 215 million dollar decision and Sequoia documented it and put it on their own website and I think that's an example of something that was happening which is people just looked the other way and didn't even want to do the layer of work I just want to say the second uncomfortable thing out loud which is there was a lot of venture firms in Silicon Valley in this period of both not doing any work or diligence who also took the extra step and actually created classes and would teach teams how to create these tokens okay and those artifacts those video links and artifacts are sometimes on their website they're still on YouTube they're inside of Twitter and what these folks would do when we talked about this the game that they played was they would get a team they would create a token they would also buy Equity at some crazy valuation the equity was locked up but the tokens were not and then they would put them on an exchange and sell them to unsuspecting people and they would be able to dump these tokens and if you look inside of that Trend what you're going to see and Brian just mentioned this those were the sale of Securities except it was done in a completely unregulated way so if the SEC is really and the doj is really going to take this ftt token issue seriously and what happened to FTX they're going to start to look at a bunch of other tokens and token sales and you're going to end up looking at some very well-known Venture firms inside of Silicon Valley that token guys let let's be honest is not the only token that has been engineered by Silicon Valley venture firms and it is also not the only token that's gone to zero that was engineered by Silicon Valley venture firms Jason there's videos today on some of the most well-known Venture firm sites on how to do this I my my biggest purchase ever was Bitcoin in 2011.
you know I've bought a bunch of these tokens that have massively depreciated in value I think lots of investors have you know I kind of fell into it as well like I thought wow this is incredible I get to buy these tokens they do all of this cool stuff they represent all this value and my experience has been the opposite of that I've lost a lot of money in these things um and so you know I really hope that Regulators not just obviously I hope that Regulators do their do the best they can to get investors money back in FTX but I really also hope they figure out all these other tokens as well because you can just rank them in terms of market cap start at the top and work your way down and you will see that these were unregulated Securities Jason that were manufactured and sold by our brethren people who understand the law around accredited investors and the stuff very well yeah yeah do you guys think crypto investing uh is dead or what do you think how do you think people think about that risk profile now inside of I think that you're investing in the tokens is going to end investing in the corporation is going to begin and any of the tokens are going to be super regulated building on what you said chamoth about the ultimate bet is it possible that Alameda the trading hedge fund was looking at the FTX data which they had insights into and essentially that's the same as seeing the whole cards in the ultimate bet and so they're making their trades based on what they see the consumers are making their trades front running their trades or otherwise that's not illegal you know Citadel does this in the regulated market that's what payment for order flow is it's right it's the ability to front run retail volume and so you know in dark pools that is legal by the law in the United States and that's what allows Citadel and you know I think Jane Street and Susquehanna you know all these folks basically run these dark pool exchanges for regulated Securities like options and bonds and and stocks and they get this order flow and they frontrun it by a millisecond and they they just take small big but they can't print the ftt tokens and otherwise manipulate the market to the level that I think sbl could I just think that there's there's there's these really strict walls and segregation as you heard Brian talk about when you have those businesses in these regulated markets the problem here is that this is totally wild west unregulated wild wild west so who knows what's going on really every single person inside of Washington right now who's anywhere near this from a regulatory perspective or a policy perspective is meeting on Monday morning and the meeting topic is how do we defend the mom-and-pop folks that lost money here yes that's the only thing so we took this out of you know because I I remember I remember I texted into the group chat hey guys what what do we think the the legal ramifications are that drive prosecution and one of our friends said legal ramifications these are political ramifications yeah which means that this is going to go to the utmost level and it's going to have the most scrutiny and they're going to act really quickly
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