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all right well guess we'll we're not going to wait till it fills up I don't know I don't know that it will post lunch makes sense it is post lunch people are digesting um welcome everybody uh the name of our session is is this the crypto Resurrection I don't come up with them um but let Zoe let me start with you if I might because I'm well acquainted we're well acquainted from many years ago you had a job in the area of finance that I have covered for many years the capital markets traditional finance and he is the co-president of Morgan Stanley so you know why crypto for you uh and what is it exactly that you see as the opportunity here yeah so um I like most people of my generation uh believed this blockchain technology we're talking about a few years back 2018 was an inter distributor Ledger technology interesting technology all the crypto stuff and until I got a call from a head hunter uh who said There is a board position at Ripple um and would you like to go uh to sit on that board and it changed my life because uh unlike Jamie Diamond who was my business school classmate ER I changed my mind about this space um Ripple basically had a very simple um philosophy that ER the digitization if you will of value uh was something very very big the fact that you and I can exchange value not just money value without a bank account just with a telephone that's a revolution and so um I am a huge believer in the space it's a Cambrian EXP explosion of activity very very early but I believe it's the fastest growth Story the fastest cheapest growth story of the all ER I think the uh space is taken a lot about buy Bitcoin and you'll be rich and a lot of people have become rich yes um it's a very topical use case because digital gold if you believe inflation isn't going back down the risk of hyperinflation is higher in fact it's very very good store of value but frankly to answer your question the reason I'm excited is actually the uh digitization of everything for a generation the what does that mean the digitization of everything and feel free to everybody can chime in on that one yeah again for me the fact that actually you can create synthetic effects what I mean by that is right now the uh Swift system which is a messaging system correspondent banking system works just fine still if I'm Morgan Stanley sending $10 million to JP Morgan if you're anme Nigeria not so good so you can actually access the global system you can get digitized money to Kenya to Brazil to Mexico pick your country instantaneously cheaper and it's accessible to to you that's a revolution the most recent one and then I'll let my co-panelists talk but as you can see I'm passionate about the space the question I get asked more often why are you in it it's the most fascinating Revolution since the one that made my career which is finance globalizing you and I met when I was running fixed income and Morgan Stanley it was the beginning of globalization this is as big a revolution if not bigger and the stable coin Revolution because the question we get asked I'm sure all of us there is no use case yes that is that is a question that is asked a lot and certainly of those who are critical or at least are not Believers uh so it's a massive use case the one I just describe basically the fact that you're fractionalizing ownership and having the the one that adds value and the one that buys value meet instantaneously that's a use case stable coins which are now quarter of a trillion dollars of value coursing through the veins of the world backed by us treasuries which is basically so the stable coin Market uh there we're the top 15 buyers of us treasuries you can imagine where the US government actually likes St coins all of a sudden so anyway okay yeah let let's get to some of other panel I know both of you actually have specifically wanted discuss stable coins as well why I mean I assume you agree to a certain extent with Zoe why are they of such importance in terms of the growth of let's call it the the crypto ecosystem yeah well first off I think crypto is the technology of the future um it has the potential to replace the existing Financial system it'll be a compliment at first but ultimately I think crypto wallet will replace your bank account when it comes to stable coins um I think it's one of the most Innovative in real world use cases that we're seeing incredible adoption already like the story is already here uh 27 trillion doar of value moved in stable coins over last year that's more than visa and MasterCard combined so just let that set in there are many parts of the world where it's difficult to get access to US Dollars it's difficult to get access to banking essentially anyone with an internet connection can participate spin up a cryptocurrency wallet anywhere in the world and receive value in the form of a stable coin and so I actually think the biggest demand from stable coins won't just be in the United States it will be outside the United States where you know access to banking access to dollars is challenging right although it is I mean dollars become and treasuries become a very important part of this world don't they yeah well well first off stable coins you know we want us back stable coins to be here in America we want them to be having ass tations in America that they're here and ultimately what is backing these stable coins is t- bills now the next evolution of stable coins will be how do we get that yield in the hand of consumers because if you can add yield to a stable coin then this can really replace your bank account right because you not only have access to dollars but you have access to interest yeah Kathy I mean and particularly I'm interested in your perspective as an investor in terms of why and what parts of this overall ecosystem you find particularly attractive well we've been saying uh we're interested in all three of the revolutions that we think are taking place around the crypto asset ecosystem the money Revolution really is around Bitcoin uh from a monetary system point of view and I think people are understand that pretty well uh this the defi Revolution and I know we were talking about semantics earlier Maybe we should stop calling it defi because it sounds defiant but it's really just the internet Financial system or in India they would call it the finnet so that it's a little more accessible understandable less threatening that's really all this is and uh in terms of stable coin specifically uh you know we look at the numbers and and Ivan's right in terms of the transaction value on uh on stable coins it is last year it was bigger than either on Visa or Mastercard now the difference is uh the number of transactions that visa and MasterCard process is much higher the value associated with each transaction uh here is uh much higher with stable coin so that and the stable coin coin uh value locked out there that's $250 billion uh the stablecoin uh networks their revenue annualized at I think $7 billion in the second half of last year so this is already a big business so that's the second revolution so monetary system uh Financial Revolution and then the third is uh really digital and and this applies to all of them but uh because of nfts we carve out another uh category here digital property rights that are immutable that's a very big idea too especially because uh young people spend more than half of their discretionary Time online and that is where they are recruting social status almost almost more than in the physical world these days yeah I'm not sure that's a particularly good thing but it may be may be a fact uh you know Ivan crypto wallets will replace bank accounts why do you why are you why do you fully believe that will be the case well obviously there's self-interest here because I build the backwards compatibility to the existing Financial system and bring it to crypto wallets so what moonay does it makes it easy to use any payment method that is popular your debit card your credit card your bank accounts your venmo your PayPal uh we're localizing it for every single part of the world and so we're connecting to the Legacy Financial system to make it easy easier for people to participate so first you got to get the distribution and make it easy for people to put money in their cryptocurrency wallet when we started the only way to do that is you had to go to a centralized exchange then move it into a cryptocurrency wallet I actually think the cryptocurrency wallet will be the primary interface the other big Trend that we're starting to see is within defi um you know it's even more recently if you look at overall exchange activity inside of retail uh defi is becoming a bigger and bigger part so essentially leveraging smart contracts automated market makers there's all this technology that people can use to actually trade without having to use a centralized intermediary and so if you look at just over the past couple weeks there was a point where defi was actually over about 40% of the overall Market I think that Trend will continue to move up and to the right and so people can skip going to centralized exchanges go directly inside a wallet and be able to trade anything that's on chain and that's a trend I'm very excited about and so the next big piece is we need to put productive assets on chain we need to put real world assets not just mem coins not just mem coins and I think meme coins you know to be honest I'll give I'll give uh you know a defense of meme coins to some extent I think that essentially you're tokenizing Goodwill that's what a a meme coin is eventually we need to put productive assets on chain and so it looks like a toy to begin with people joke about it and you know okay people are betting on attention of particular assets but this is the training ground these are the training wheels for something that's going to become much bigger imagine when you start to get tokenized treasuries tokenized bonds tokenized stocks um and we didn't have a regulatory environment in the United States that was conducive for that to happen I think we're now starting to see that shift you do how important is the government's involvement here Zoe in terms of setting the rules of the road or just in terms of exactly what Ivan just said there sort of making it possible for what he's discussing I think it's critical H especially the way the new government in the the us cuz without the US you don't have a global uh you know frictional movement of capital so that's very good thing my understanding of this uh new movement in the US government is principle-based Rule making uh we all know what the principles are uh the the Sam bankman freed problem of comingling client account with you this is pretty simple principles yeah and so what I like is they're building Frameworks that will save us from ourselves cuz let's say the industry has a bad name we deserve a lot of it frankly lots of shyers in this business by buy it because it'll go higher right U so I gave actually a I was at a Wall Street Journal live function in 201718 with Brian Armstrong and we talked about you know he talked correctly that uh the current regime is stifling Innovation and I my feeling about that is when you talk about not just us but Regulators around the world when you talk to them what they say is Bitcoin to bitcoin knock your socks off with your wallets the Fiat on and off ramps we're going to regulate you the way we regulate City Group there is on coinbase is a multi-billion dollar company Brian Armstrong got that so for me it's a it's a false choice of centralized banking JP Morgan isn't going anywhere of course not uh what you're talking and you've done an amazing job building valuable companies the retail you know the the title of this Gathering is investing with purpose well what is a higher purpose than give access to global Finance to people that don't have it MH uh without bypassing the the man so in our business we don't do meme coins I don't think you should Outlaw speculating we don't do ID coins because ID coins try to bypass AML kyc so we all know if we actually understand that there are two levers governments around the world will never give up fiscal and monetary policy they're not going to allow you to bypass the man I think this business will continue to thrive Kathy do we need a Bitcoin Reserve you think we'll get one and what will it mean if we do uh well I I think we will get there's a lot of debate surprising to me in the Bitcoin Community uh around this but I do think this uh this Administration is determined uh and I think one of the reasons is a little bit to what uh Zoe was saying you know Bitcoin is going to keep uh our monetary authorities more honest it's a you know basic basically it is uh you know you have this insurance policy you don't have to be a part of the Fiat system if this other system which is uh which is governed by scarcity value is going to treat you better uh so I think I think that um it it's wise uh to introduce this new asset class which it is uh into the reserve ecosystem how about you h well I think it's been incredible to see the institutionalization of crypto uh and what we've seen over the last year just with Bitcoin we saw the approval there's more money sitting in Bitcoin ETFs than gold ETFs right now just let that 100 100 billion more than I mean yes 100 billion yeah and so now it's do sovereigns do central banks start to hold Bitcoin that's the big question and you know if that does take place um you could see this becoming an asset class that can rival gold I I I think the one thing that has surprised us because we thought it would become a reserve asset but not first in the United States although maybe El Salvador was first but uh but it more in Emerging Markets who are subjected all the time to the buffeting associated with the dollar you know uh so I think that's been a surprise but once we see Emerging Markets following the US they're almost looking to to the US and you know this is a blessing of uh of Bitcoin as a new asset class as cryptocurrency I think they'll follow and I'm uh and I'd love to know what Zoe thinks because if they do it's going to be interesting to see what happens to uh Emerging Market currencies you know so I I I I really believe that one of the problems and we went through this in the 80s and the 90s uh different parts of the world but the dollar going up dramatically creaming Emerging Market currencies and they have a lot of their do uh debt denominated in dollars that was a very deflationary force on the world so I have been surprised they've not adopted uh Bitcoin more quickly but I think they will um you know Zoe there are still no shortage of of those who have an important Voice who are critical of this Jamie Diamond you mentioned obviously the late Charlie Munger but Paul singer recently at Elliott talked about it having no substance does it matter if those people who are still influential or one over or uh you know is there a rebranding so to speak that can occur without them what a great question I wish it were the case that we can win them over but and there is nothing wrong with being skeptical but there is something wrong with being closed-minded and so for me maybe because I have young children and they still have brain plasticity to understand the world changes um I actually think it's up to the industry to um Rebrand itself on this for me what I'm excited about is thinking about giving access to the world uh of Finance to the people that don't have any so democratizing finance and you don't do that by scans so I think it's up to us as Leaders the question I get asked a lot more often people that knew me from my Morgan Stanley days why are you in this space practically spitting out the words well it should be and I'm trying to figure out how many Zoe cruises can we get to understand why I'm in this space that is actually something that adds value by the way H let's be clear it's a false choice either Fiat currencies or Bitcoin I mean Bitcoin began by peer-to-peer cash that's not it now it's digital gold zero allocation of your portfolio is the wrong answer frankly more than 10% 20% if you really believe in it is also the wrong answer let's hope for all of us that the dollar does not become the deut mark in the viar Republic so I would focus a lot more attention on on how do we get $36 trillion worth of debt down to 10 maybe then say Bitcoin sucks well there you go uh given the clock says z0 and we're ending on Applause I guess even though we've just begun the conversation we'll end it for now there Zoe Ivan Kathy thank you thank D thank you thank you all right thank you
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