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OK. And now you mentioned money. How, how will money change? What will happen to the money? Well, poor people don't have bank accounts. And so when something unexpected happens, they want to borrow or put it away, it's very difficult. Uh, for small transactions the fees are just too high. When you have banks and ATMs, we can take a mobile phone, use digital currency, and then you get all these financial services.
So two billion people who don't have a single bank account will get all sorts of innovative services that will help them save, pay for education, uh , and it takes some work: getting the regulation right, getting critical mass, convincing people to trust it; But the magic of a mobile phone with the right software means that people will have banking services, which is very important to their lives, so they can borrow when they need to.
This is interesting because now everyone has a mobile phone and a smartphone. I'm here with Bill Gates. We know him from Microsoft. Now we know him by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Bill, it's so nice to see you. It's great to see you here, because we know the Gates Foundation for its work on infectious diseases, children's health, nutrition, agriculture, education, and the list goes on.
Why is Bill Gates interested in finance? Well , it's all to help the poorest. And one thing they don't have access to is bank accounts. Er , the commission structure, if you have small amounts of money, is just too high. We were involved in some traditional microlending, but we just didn't see how it could be scaled and made affordable enough.
So now we're trying to make sure that we create a very efficient digital payments framework for all the poorest people in the world, so that they can get the financial products that are right for them. What are you doing? Oh, the idea is that through your mobile phone you should be able to send money to your relatives.
You should be able to track the money coming in, save money to buy seeds for next year. And there are countries where this is starting to develop. Kenya, Bangladesh, even Somalia, which is perhaps the last country you would suspect; In Somaliland, almost half of GDP is generated digitally. I don't need to tell you that the poor have been unbanked since banks came into existence .
Why is everything different this time? Well, this is truly a digital revolution. The poorest people bought cows, hoarded gold, or hid cash under their mattresses. But now they have mobile phones that allow them to identify the user. This makes it possible to track your own expenses. This will become quite a common thing.
People will receive assistance and a multitude of innovative products based on this digital currency platform. So, while technologies like mobile phones or digital money help expand access to financial services, they also lower the cost of providing them. Why is philanthropy needed here ? Philanthropy should only give impetus to this process.
There are many regulations in this area , and it is important to understand how these rules affect the value of the remittances you send to your family in your country of origin. Currently, such transfers have a commission of about 5%. We believe we need to ensure that the rules do not create too high costs, especially for small transactions .
Once everything is working, we will move on to apps and ask: “How does a savings app help a mother direct her funds specifically to her children’s needs ?” How does this help them stay in school? For example, saving money for fitness or for good planning for the future. Some of what you described— the need to transfer money, the cost of that process, these “overhead costs”—makes me think about Bitcoin, because some people say, “Hey, Bitcoin is the solution to these problems.” Do you believe this?
Bitcoin is interesting because it shows how cheap it can be. Bitcoin is better than cash because you don't have to be physically in one place. And of course, for large transactions, cash can be quite inconvenient. The clients we are talking about are not trying to be anonymous. They are ready to be identified.
So, the Bitcoin technology is key, and you can either complement it or build a similar technology where there is enough attribution for people to feel confident. This has nothing to do with terrorism or any kind of money laundering. What people or private businesses are currently helping to solve the same problems that interest you?
In some countries, mobile operators have worked just fantastically. And in several other countries it was banks . Well, in some countries it's a startup that's neither a bank nor a mobile company. In Bangladesh, Bcash works on any phone, and, you know, they've regulated it so that they have a product that we think will become very widespread.
So for entrepreneurs, this creates opportunities, because if you want to, say, bring electricity to a city, collecting fees is one of the reasons why the lack of investment in infrastructure in these areas is really holding back the economy. You mentioned that banks are mostly legacy institutions. Banks, credit companies, payment systems— friends or enemies?
Many of them want to get these new clients, but they will have to accept the fact that the commissions will be much lower, so they have to find a way to serve these new clients. This means that these customers will not come to the branch, so banks may charge higher fees when you want to withdraw cash.
But if it's a purely digital transaction, you should pay less than one percent to transfer money from you to a merchant or to a friend . Even if all regulatory requirements are met, Bitcoin is something you are interested in and support. In fact, you can pay for a trip to the moon on Virgin Galactic using Bitcoin.
It seems the Winklevoss brothers said they would do just that. Do you think this is a currency that will actually work in the end? Well, I think it's already working. And there will be other currencies like it that may be even better. But in the meantime, a large industry has formed around Bitcoin , and people have made fortunes from Bitcoin.
Some people lost money on Bitcoin. Ahem. He is unstable. He is volatile. Yes. It's quite volatile, but, you know, during volatility, people can make money from such situations. Why was it important for you to give that sign of approval by telling the Winklevoss brothers, “ Yes, you can pay for the trip with Bitcoin”?
Because I'm not a fool. I mean, if people have a lot of Bitcoin and they want to go to space, I would rather they spend that money on our spaceship. Whether I keep my fortune in Bitcoin is another matter, but I would rather see that money spent on a Virgin Galactic spaceship than on...well, you know, one day Elon will send people into space in his ship.
So, we'll grab the money while we can. And this is another redistribution of trillions of dollars. And in financial services, as Chris said earlier, Bitcoin and things like that are the equivalent of a "red pill." Okay, we're now entering a completely uncharted world. Have you made any investments in Bitcoin?
Well, I personally own Bitcoin in my hedge fund. I own Bitcoin in my fund. I own Bitcoin in my private account. This is very important. This is extremely, extremely important, because what you're talking about right now is an incredibly better way to preserve value for the next three to five years. This is gold 2.0, right?
The value of gold, which insures the global economy, is about $9 trillion , right? $1,300 per ounce, of which only $100–150 is the actual cost of extraction. So everything else is a convention, where you and I decided that it costs 1,300 per ounce. So what do you think? I can do the same thing with Bitcoin, only now I can do it outside the control of any government.
It is used wherever you think it should be used. Russia, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Venezuela, Argentina—anywhere there is currency pressure, anywhere you want to protect your assets. And after that, it will likely become a payment mechanism. So, in all three of these industries, we're talking about trillions of dollars to be had, right?
And it's worth just trying, right? Spend a few months understanding what the opportunity is and then step into the arena. And I think the cool thing is that it's easier to learn programming now. This is actually useful because you, you know, you can probably make something yourself . You can find like-minded people.
So this is a time when people should try to do something very large-scale and crazy. A wonderful ending. Thank you very much. Kevin O'Leary—our business columnist and chairman of Oly Funds. We know he has a couple of thoughts on the matter. Nice to see you back in the studio this morning. number. What's happening with Vizlake?
A huge jump from $20 to hundreds, then a steep drop yesterday. Well, let's remember that just yesterday, most people in the world had never heard of Bitcoin. Bitcoin, for those who don't know, is essentially a virtual currency, the same one you get for destroying aliens in a video game, only now it's traded all over the world.
You can buy Bitcoins with almost any currency on Earth and convert them back into any currency or use them to buy goods and services. Well, we talked about this story. What really got us talking about Bitcoin was a guy in Edmonton who was selling his house for the first time and wanted 400,000 in Bitcoin.
So, I think the best way to look at it is as an indicator of people's distrust of central bankers . If you are willing to accept Bitcoin as a currency, a virtual Barbie currency, as far as I'm concerned , it has no foundation, no central banker, no hard assets behind it; but if you don't trust any other currency, this is where you go.
So, basically, here's what's happening, Heather: people all over the world are saying, "I've had enough of my central banker ." I don't trust politicians anymore. I am going to trade this currency using my computer and mobile phone." Well , they did it. The reason why Bitcoin skyrocketed was after Cyprus, when people thought the government was going to get their hands on their money in the bank.
So people turned to Bitcoin to protect themselves. I ignore everything until it reaches a billion dollars in market cap. This recently happened with Bitcoin, its value has significantly exceeded a billion. So it's here for the long haul, when you've accumulated a billion dollars in virtual value and people are willing to trade it and actually buy things with it, converting it back into hard assets.
And that's the point, Heather. Owners of hard assets are ready to accept Bitcoin. He's here for the long haul. Here's what will happen. And no central bank can control it. But you just called it the "Barbie" currency. I wanted to ask if this was all a hoax? I mean, is this a legal form of currency for trade?
That's right. And once it crossed the billion mark and someone bought an asset for it , it became real in my books as an investor . At the same time, compared to all other currencies, it is negligible. A billion dollars doesn't matter in the foreign exchange market. Remember, the foreign exchange markets are the largest markets on Earth.
Bigger than commodities, bigger than stocks, bigger than bonds; it will grow, but it will take a long time. But the main thing is volatility. you. No, no one is going to invest a significant portion of their wealth in this thing because it can go up or down 60% in a day, as we saw yesterday. But is it for long?
Oh, yes. So, do I invest two or three percent in Bitcoin? I think it's possible. I'm starting to look into this. Really? I just wanted to ask if you even do this? I have a basket of currencies, Gezer. The way to diversify risk in currencies is to own many of them. I have euros. I have Swiss francs. I have Canadian dollars, American dollars.
And I can start playing around with Bitcoin a little. I...that's exactly what I was going to say. OK. Thank you for the introduction. Kevin O'Leary, our business commentator, chairman of O'Leary Funds. Thank you, Kevin .
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