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he's famous for that statement he says so we're thinking about bitcoin but we also think you ought to have a very diversified portfolio of non-dollar denominated non-debt instruments in emerging asian countries currency diversification country diversification as well as asset class diversity including maybe some china debt that's very complicated okay and there's a and so when i look at it my response is michael just i want to give a sense i mean you recently were having a bit of a said to i would i that's going a bit too far probably with the raid dahlia of course the bridgewater says its founder he believes in a new paradigm and believes it's going to be characterized by i'm just quoting by shocking tax hikes and prohibitions against capital movements in assets like bitcoin and gold and you know you agree with him in the sense that bonds no longer work as a treasury asset but you say that bitcoin is the obvious conclusion to all this why is the cash is trash he's famous for that statement and he says bonds have negative real yields and they don't work anymore and you're crazy to own a us dollar denominated bond and then in that paper he says so well we're thinking about bitcoin but you know we might be concerned about tax or regulation we're not sure but we also think you ought to have a very diversified portfolio of non-dollar denominated non-debt instruments in emerging asian countries including maybe some china debt that's very complicated okay and there's a and so when i look at it my response is the simple obvious solution is buy bitcoin as property bitcoin is not going to be a currency you know sure if people want to move billions of dollars of bitcoin across borders without kyc and aml that's going to run into red flags and and i don't think that's going to happen but i think i think that in in all of the world that respects property rights if you can buy gold if you can buy stocks if you can buy real estate if you can buy silver and commodities you can buy bitcoin and i don't think the world's got any problem at least not not the western world has no problem with people buying bitcoin to hold his property and it is the solution to the problem the problem is if the fiat currency expands at 15 a year then not only does the dollar lose 15 of its value every year in purchasing power but also value stocks that are that are valued based upon dollar cash flows lose their value and commercial real estate valued upon rents in dollar cash flows lose their value and of course bonds valued in dollar coupons lose their value so the real problem is an entire diversified portfolio that has any exposure to a currency which is weakening is also going to weaken and then then the theoretical answer is buy a property buy an asset which is not value based upon cash flows and that means precious metals or trophy trophy real estate some trophy thing that you value just own it art maybe a picasso a leonardo da vinci or bitcoin bitcoin exists only to be a pure monetary store of value and it is not based upon the cash flows of any product or any service and it it is the apex asset because no government can print any more of it and no ceo can yeah i just want to jump in okay michael ultimately it is uh bitcoin is also dollar denominated that's one thing and if we see further currency debasement how does that play out with bitcoin should bitcoin be priced in another currency just want to go on a little bit from that and if we get further dollar debasement is that one of the things which has been turbo charging bitcoin itself now over the last 12 months yeah well the way the way you think about bitcoin is there's never going to be more than 21 million and so if you double the amount of dollars it's got to be worth twice as much and if you increase the number of dollars by a factor of 10 then you've got a lot more dollars chasing after the same exact bitcoins and everybody pretty much expects bitcoins gonna have 21 million cap 150 years from now you can't say that about commodities credits bonds stocks real estate so um so in countries where the currency is collapsing faster like argentina bitcoin goes up even faster right if you have a very hard currency bitcoin goes up slower it's it's basically um just a way to acquire property in cyberspace in a different dimension than the current country and the reason that's the apex property is because if i bought ranches in california i got california property tax if i bought property in switzerland i'm subject to swiss law swiss regulation if i bought any other kind of stock i'm subject to either the execution risk of the company the competition the company so so what is the risk in bitcoin well it's a it's a monetary network so the risk is another monetary network in cyberspace and the and the thing that's so appealing to bitcoin is it's the first trillion dollar digital monetary network the next best one is a hundred times smaller so it's got network dominance it rose to a trillion in 12 years it's got massive momentum and you can imagine the inertia of a trillion dollars of money sitting on a network think about how hard people will fight to defend the trillion dollars they've deposited into this network i say bitcoin is a bank in cyberspace and you can really think of it as the most successful bank in cyberspace and it's a rising to offer a very simple solution it's a store of value solution at a time when everybody on earth all 7.8 billion people need a store of value every investor with the 400 trillion dollars worth of fiat derivatives needs to store a value every institution needs a store of value and 100 million companies private and 10 000 public companies need a treasury strategy which is a store of value so it's simply a technical solution to a problem that became front and center a big issue for everybody starting in march of 2020.
so michael that you know brings me nicely to it so it's not going to be going back and dialing back there's a lot to unpack here it's not as it's not going to be a currency in your view it's going to be merely a store of value but is it a store of value which is being bought on a speculative basis that's the thing yeah i think that in the early years if you look at the at bitcoin's development from 2010 to 2020 it was speculative and by 2017 and 2018 and that first blow off top when it went to 19 000 and it crashed it was a lot of leverage speculators and they were basically using bitcoin to leverage to get the icos to trade other crypto assets and and there was a small minority of hodlers that believed it was a store about that class what happened in march of 2020 is that this became digital gold to anybody who's a macro investor who's concerned with the great monetary inflation as paul tudor jones called it and when paul tudor jones anointed it is the next digital gold and stanley druckenmiller grabbed it and skybridge and guggenheim and everybody else started thinking about it the narrative transitioned to store value the institutional investors they came in with deep pockets their duration stretched out the leverage decreased and you had companies like mine that are saying i just want to hold it forever for a hundred years and the other thing that happened is when bit bitcoin is a monetary fire burning in cyberspace how do you feed a fire a monetary fire you feed it money and so when this fire burned into the public market when it hit micro strategy what happens well you know a guy like me goes okay i think i'll buy about 175 million of it and then i think i'll buy my company will buy 250 million of it uh we'll buy another 250 million we'll just borrow 650 million at 75 basis points and borrow some more we'll borrow a billion at zero percentages and bars some more so the when when the fire was burning through individual speculators it was growing at 200 a year for a decade when it hit the public markets after march it started growing at 400 percent a year it accelerated it's like that fire goes to the warehouse and it hits the tanks of gasoline and we pour gasoline on the fire so that's what's happening right now it's rotating and and if i'm a public company i don't ever have to sell it in fact like micro strategies and sell i can borrow money or issue equity forever you
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