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like we had in the past they're still issued on notes and they're still debt this idea debt goes away no it doesn't we still want to invest we still want to build things we still want to get loans we don't want to have to say I mean in my parents generation they had to save further my grandparents had to actually get 80% of their loan their savings before they could get a loan of 20% that's ridiculous let let's go back to your question about gold based currencies so gold itself versus the paper money that's backed by gold I see those as two very different things would you agree or disagree what is gold it's basically just a marker so this idea gold has value in is not a marker gold is a physical commodity where has values what people place on it right so my question for you is gold versus the paper that backs of gold is two different things in my example in China in holidays mid aumn Festival they give out moon cakes something you can eat that's a physical asset and then what they do instead is they like gift certificates which you redeem for moon cakes so my example I like to use in China is moon cakes physical moon cakes that you can eat versus redeemable certificates for moon cakes those are two different things one is asset one is debt and what's Bitcoin I think it's an asset I agree it's an informational asset but it's not being used gold itself is asset as well would you agree um gold can be an asset money goldback paper money is different right to me gold back paper money is the same it was a way to scale gold for day-to-day transactions and it just failed and the reason why that failed is because the governments Can't Stop Printing money uh and they had the ability to do it uh so that's it so Bitcoin is going to scale uh with lightning uh Bitcoin is a store of value uh it has been for me certainly and for many people that actually understand Bitcoin and uh maybe one day hopefully sooner than later Bitcoin will eventually be like a unit of account but I agree with you Professor 100% that no there's only one Professor on the panel here uh I agree with you Professor that um everything other than Bitcoin is an outright nonsense and it is a barter system of these stone age if you are going to have a Coca-Cola coin the Pepsi coin or anything else that includes ethereum and Litecoin and anything else so tone has this idea that you can't seize Bitcoin which next year you'll see is completely wrong uh and a whole lot of people will be really really annoyed but too bad and he has this totally idea wrong idea about lightning scaling the whole idea of lightning was to not have records under ml5 which is goldplated here in the UK there's a requirement to save every transaction so when you're doing this uh lightning node is a money Handler don't care whether you like it or not government's already said it is that means if you're running a a lightning node you actually have to maintain every record for every node connected to you you end up with a factorial growth of the amount of logs compared to bitcoin you end up with a six-month log period that you're required as an individual by law to keep or you have committed a criminal offense and you have evidence of an offense this is what Bitcoin does you have signed transactions showing where money goes so he's got this system that doesn't really scale that has security vulnerabilities and basically shits all over Bitcoin that he says can scale because every person is going to have pet bites of information at home yay wow that is the that that is total nonsense but I just want to mention that see I talk to people like uh I'm talking with people in the law commission they wouldn't have any idea about law I mean I'm doing my doctor of law at the moment of course and none of the professors many any idea what you're working on right now two actually perfect um uh so um Can Bitcoin uh be confiscated one day can uh can the Bitcoin blockchain break it's possible the thing is it's very very unlikely there's no break here the the question record allocation doesn't mean breaking the the question is it's very unlikely like how safe is your Bitcoin in your cold storage uh if you're committing a crime and um seed it's pretty safe um but is the Bitcoin blockchain perfect could there be uh something that completely breaks it sure what you have to realize is anything else in the crypto space is infinitely more insecure so if you think your is going to be I can feel crypto inside squabbles really because we have to be as generic as as possible here and my question I'm just bringing you down on the right track here really uh it's identifying these flaws that are today that can seen today in the modern centralized Financial system okay what so what does that mean centralized Financial system the FED is enties well how there are over a 100 central banks there over 50 10,000 Banks you're there are over 100 currencies you're talking centralized centralized what what do you mean by centralized do you mean when you have the ability to pay in 1,000 different methodologies that centralized where you have companies enabling um you to transact in over 50,000 different methods calized means just being in control of all the transactions F first and foremost okay that's that he's trying to build so where well wrong but where you're talking about that you're talking about um in control the central bank doesn't control where notes go the central bank doesn't you agree with that Professor Rini um well I agree that actually what you refer to as a centralized Financial system is not centralized there are thousands and thousands of financial institutions there are lots of means of payments there lots of different currencies there are lots of central banks uh um so it's a system in which there is a significant amount of competition there is all this fintech revolution so people say it's terrible is a centralized system but I'm not sure honestly what it means and the alternative is not a financial system is not even a currency and it's not even decentralized because everything in the crypto world is centralized so we're talking artificial comparison with something like a boogaboo of centralized Financial system Fiat money you speak about fat money uh central banks have reacted to the financial crisis by doing quantitive easing credit easing zero policy rate negative policy rate to avoid deflation we don't have an inflationary problem today if there's inflation there's inflation among shitcoins every other day there's a shitcoin created out of Fiat the supply can be endless thousands of them the average one has lost 99% of its value thousands of them that that's a Fiat money right that's a crap every other day my ear question not to do with decentralization so let me ask my ear question not used by anybody I'll just talk over him pretend Crea a differenter November next month I mean all right so Professor the question about money printing what do you think of that I'd like to hear your comment on that Fiat money printing is a good thing or bad thing there is nothing wrong with quantitive easing there is nothing wrong with zero policy rates there is nothing wrong with negative policy rates there is nothing wrong with forign guidance there is nothing wrong with anything the central banks are doing because today we have a problem of lack of aggregate demand there's a global savings glut there is cular stagnation and if during the global financial crisis we had made the same mistake was done in 1930s of letting everybody liquidate of no monetary easing no fiscal easing of back stopping the financial system we then end up with a Great Recession becoming Great Depression 2.0 this recovery has not been great but we learned the lessons of the past there was no monetary policy we have central banks we have L of Last Resort and that saved the system the system has worked okay has worked so it has worked by your definition but for me this money not this physical one but I moved to the United States in 1989 30 years ago and I remember $100 it had a small Benjamin Franklin Head some of you have seen that it was worth so much money it could do so much for me over a weekend pay for lunch over 30 years I had the same bill I hold it for 30 years is it fair is it good that today this piece of paper is worth much less than it was 30 years ago is that fair it's fair really one of the laws of Finance any shitcoin in a matter of 24 months is lost has lost I'm not I don't 99% 99% of his value but that's likeing Zimbabwe dollars has lost 100% there no inflation there is no INF sir's I am not using a shitcoin here do you call this a shitcoin no that's not the shitcoin then I don't I don't compare Zimbabwe dollars with your money okay don't bring up shitcoin if I don't bring up Zimbabwe dollars currencies are perfectly fine perfectly hold on a second sir compar to your system of I don't support shitcoins yes you do you support you support nothing wrong with saying you support Fiat are you are you behind are you behind the Venezuela Bard are you behind Indian rupe there are there are 200 currency in the world two or three of them are thousands shins I don't care about the shitcoins I'm talking about the US of D us of a the US dollar everybody wants the US dollar no one wants coins that's for US dollar this US dollar 30 years ago it was worth a lot to me and the same piece of paper is worth a lot less to me today is that cool inflation is less than 2% is PL ways that plent way you can add yourself against inflation that is that is not acceptable okay your answer is not acceptable you're avoiding the topic you're avoiding the question my question is simp Us doll that thousands of shitcoins have been debased overnight with care I'm not asking about it's like me asking about the the dog the question what's alternative I'll take I'll take your $100 bill against any shitcoin you want to give me we're not talking about shitcoins here are I'm talking about the in your toilet your in your toilet stinks it smells are we're talking about that this is where we're not talking about that we're talking about the US dollar Fiat money the king of Fiat money the US dollar against Bitcoin everybody I I I unfortunately but my question is I have to agree with norel on most of this you know just like in 1999 99% of the internet startups failed and probably 90 to 99% of the crypto projects are also going to fail and most of them are shitcoins though we did get eBay we did get Amazon things did come out of the internet that still benefit us today you know the one area where we differ is I do believe that the work that we're doing here is going to deliver long-term positive implications where I disagree with many is I don't know where that innovation is going to come from all of these experiments are iterative tests and if anyone succeeds in making the world a better place we all win which is why I encourage Craig Wright and everybody else to continue to innovate because we don't know where the answer is going to come from and anyone that thinks they knows the answer today very well could be wrong lovely all right I'm I I I I want to comment on that last part later but I want to add something to what Bobby was saying um let's be happy that there's at least one paper currency in the world where a 30-year-old bill can still be worth something because I don't think anyone can hold up a paper bill from any other country from 30 years ago and it having any value at all because every country has cancelled their paper currency completely in the last 30 years so think about that and eventually the the the reason why the US well your paper pounds from 30 years ago I think my pound coins don't work anymore my are no longer in circulation I've got talk notes that have been canel absolutely they still Val they're all going to be canell because because the government wants you to turn in your money because of Sur by the way the 30 US dollar isn't the same as the current one so an argument Pap still working but it's still working at least right so were 30-year-old pounds I can still take them to the bank and deposit them hell hello so that's just I me it's it's more turn ra if your if your if your grandfather hit a suitcase of cash 50 years ago and you found it it's worth nothing nothing do you realize they won't they've been you can take it to the bank he likes to lie you can take it to the bank and they give you new notes oh no I get A50 not for my50 not
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