AI Cyber Panic, Ken Griffin’s Bubble Warning, The Fall of France?

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Well, congratulations to everyone, welcome to podcast that three weeks in a row ranks first in world. We have a lot affairs. Sax this missing for a week. Soon we will have special guest. Let's move on to our the first topic. Ken Griffin says AI almost certainly is " bubble", and Chamat answered this.

Chamat responds and influences to the markets almost every week here, in podcasts. Beware, France. Founder Citadel made these comments on this week at the annual company conferences "The future of the world markets. But he says, that in general " "bubbles"—this normally. Any radical transformation of our economy, as a rule , closely related to " "bubble." He said that optimistically set on long-term AI potential, but He is concerned about what companies are trying convert costs on AI on productivity—that is, what were we talking about here, it seems, last year.

So companies, quote, " looking at their own invoices from Anthropic and OpenAI and they ask where productivity". We again and again returned to this discussions. On Thursday technology sector continued to be under pressure due to date expenses -centers and capital investment. Therefore, companies that either build data centers, like CoreWeave—minus 10%, or have huge AI costs.

Meta, what is it? extraordinary by chance, fell by 6% after reporting. AMD fell by 5%. SpaceX crashed by 5%. But these indicators slightly wavering up and down, in general demonstrating upward trend. Chamate, what is yours? opinion on mood market as of 22 October 2026? What are you? Are you thinking about how markets perceive it this way the so-called AI "bubble"?

And do you have any? fears, because Nvidia's Jensen believes, that there is money, and they will search possibility finance this? And I I think we all we believe that companies receive a huge benefit from AI technologies. My research the Social Capital team had great conversation with chief economist Ramp by Ara Khangaldyan.

The first question that they arose, there was because of what I did own calculations and tweeted about it, Nick, can you bring this up back to the screen where I said: "Okay, my rough estimates knowing everything I know , and all I see, indicate that about 1 %of all companies provide 90% of all income".

AND Income from expenses for AI? Yes, I meant that 1% of companies account for by 90% of spending on AI, that is, into tokens. And with of these 90%, 80% is accounted for by unprofitable companies that are funded venture capital. So the loop here is if to be very precise, such: venture capital capitalists collect pension funds funds, partners with limited responsibility, foundations and family offices.

They invest money in startup. This startup takes money and invests in growth. Part of growth is consumption of other AI people. So, this the company starts demonstrate income growth. Then these people say: " Hey, look how "We are working well." Attract a bunch money from the same venture investors , and it's just locked circle.

Why is this important? —Chamat indicates that that in order for AI to really scaled as intended driver long-term profits, he has to go beyond startup ecosystems . You can't to find oneself in a situation, when, on the one hand, are you talking about amazing grades , but 75 cents from every dollar is really simple startups that transfer money here and there, to to overestimate one's cost.

I believe that this is structural problem. We already saw this structural problem in the past. It took place on early stages cloud development technologies when AWS just started providing EC2 and S3, and consumers EC2 instances or S3 buckets were startups. But the difference in that AWS was separated from retail business Amazon, which was already about break-even or profitable, at least at the level free cash flow.

So the difference here is because we have a bunch unprofitable organizations that they are just chasing money in a circle, and this has become a wider phenomenon. I think that's exactly what Ken noticed. When we brought this data to Ramp, quote simply incredible, that's what my told me researcher: "I prepared a list factors to check your thesis ", —this is what he wrote message me.

that venture capital money makes up 80-90% from the top 1% spending on AI. But he added: "Chamat's assessment actually almost correct." And secondly, what he said: he sent us a schedule, which Ramp is not yet published, so thank you Ramp and thank you Arava. He said that we could be the first ones who will publish.

And to make it clear for audience: Ramp provides financial services, neobanking, credit cards mainly for startups. So they have data startups. Here it is free advertising. Yes. I think they also have wide data from other sources, and I think Arav has access to everything this. But he said: "Now look on this schedule." Therefore, this shows how 1% the largest spenders in in the field of AI spend your own money.

And I think, that Ramp soon it will publish as I already did said, so thank them for the opportunity to familiarize yourself with this in advance. What about me? impressive, it's blue rectangle on this histogram. He shows which percentage of money they spend on GPU- calculation. But why? Is this important?

Well, pink rectangle —this is LLM traffic. It typical costs for large closed models from leading laboratories, through services like Bedrock on AWS or similar. The most interesting thing is that blue rectangle is growing. Blue the rectangle is people, who buy their own GPUs, because they are switching to open source.

And therefore, as for me, is happening very interesting two-step process. Firstly, spread of AI a little bit is happening slower than us everyone would like it. I I see this in 80-90% of cases. . I think big companies we work with we work, we can almost accurately track on schedule: from the moment Alex's comment Karpa on CNBC about data sovereignty procurement models changed, and people have become much more methodical.

They build their own data- centers or at least are moving into virtual clouds (VPC). Yesterday my team was at the CIO event one of the largest banks of America. You know what they are said? I will not name the bank. It was incredible. They said: we reduced costs for AWS and GCP. Now we have six in total independent data- centers that we built from scratch for himself.

And I thought: what What is happening here? Wow, we're back in future. People open their own data centers, yes. This is a real "Back in future". So, I I think if look at this...I I wasn't going to do anything. to comment, except own observations , but yes. AI has problem with spread. He too concentrated and rotates within small ecosystem .

We need to spread, and, as I I see, with such common people choose open code. We, we, we were the first, who started this discussion 2 years ago here, on All-In podcasts. I will say about Ken Griffin: I I didn't hear the full quotes, because I wasn't there the room where it is happened. However, judging by the quote, I I think he can a little be wrong.

When startups in droves are switching to some technology, this strong signal. Why? Startups, and me I invest in a hundred year and we estimate over 10,000 a year in my fondue. They are looking for the cheapest, the best and the fastest advantage, which they can get. Which was the biggest? advantage of 15-20 years ago?

These were cloudy calculation. They saved a lot money. It was WeWork. They saved money. a lot of money. It was more effective. AND then there was an advertisement in Facebook. Facebook advertising was underestimated, she was very cheap. They poured all your venture capital money for advertising in Facebook.

Then, and now, it has become artificial intellect. Last 2 years, yes, they are pour money into him. So, if you you see that startups rushing at technology or trend and start spending all yours for this venture capital money, that's means that this small community companies from two to 200 people identified, and they are the most clever, what is this the best solution.

So this is a signal that everything moving in the right direction . Big, slow, bulky enterprises, they the slowest to new technologies, and so they are constantly buy startups. To things about constant purchase of startups: from I am Nikesh from Palo Alto. Networks to tell us, is this the end? peace for all our bank accounts , will bitcoin be hacked this weekend, and whether need to buy more weapons, chickens, eggs and drill wells.

Kind regards please come again program, Nikesha Arora. How are you, sir? I'm doing great. Thank you for inviting me, guys. You had a wonderful time. event last week, isn't that right? Small nice event in Napa. Yes. We had a bunch directors from informational technologies, not just one bank CIO, as Chamat said.

But before we move on until the end of the world, I want to say something about what you are talking about talked about earlier. Yes, regarding open source against hyperscalers , which provide information. So, in we have this specific problem. We would like to introduce artificial intelligence as well quickly, like many startups.

We passed through all understanding, the whole analysis, open source vs. cloud models, and we we prefer open source with open weight, so what does this allow us to do change weights and train them. And more something about which most people don't says: this allows we need to investigate the course thoughts.

Because over time the following will happen: to all of us, enterprises, will be needed explainability, auditability and checking this. 100%. 100%. If I can't confirm, then no will be acceptable to come to your boss and say: "I don't know, what happened, but IT- The shniks introduced AI model, and then it did it itself." This impossible to explain regulator in financial services and health care.

So they want explainability, verifiability and, you know, opportunities audit. And we can get this only thanks to models with open source and open scales. We we can analyze chains of reasoning. This is one of the reasons why we lean towards them, instead of to get involved in closed race systems. But the challenge, What are you guys talking about?

They talked, and I saw. Chamat's schedule is what that is very difficult right now find a global one, stable and highly reliable inference provider outside the limits hyperscalers. So, if I'm a startup— perfectly. I can rent 10 MW in one data center in one part of the United States, and if he disconnect on a few hours, I don't lucky, but I startup, so I'm in order.

But I provide sustainable services with with a reliability of 99.9%, and I very hard to find global inference provider who doesn't try sell me yours model at a price that makes use of open source economically more profitable. Let me put I have a question for you. How are you? Do you think it is possible?

a world where Palo Alto Networks will do one of two steps? First: you are you going to hyperscalers and You say, "Listen, Guys, you are launching this is for me, but I I want "iron" without shells. I want complete isolation from external networks. It there will be an AWS object, but I I will just rent.

You have it. In another just in case Step aside so I can could control everything within". Or you do what you do one big one systemically important bank, and you say: "I I will build my own infrastructure in United States." Is there a possibility that other companies will follow on such a radical step?

Do you think that this is an extreme case , which is not typical? This is an interesting discussion, that stretches back in time, when 6-8 years ago I came to Palo Alto and closed all data- centers. I said, "We we will not be able to support global network data centers with such same scale, speed and as reliable as I can rent it from hyperscalers." AND life was wonderful, but it so happened that in current realities computational steel capacity very expensive.

Find free computing power in the world very difficult, period. So, I am a buyer. I I accept the conditions, but not I dictate them. Very difficult to dictate the terms of any where, because, of course, you can build any plans, but these plans... Well, you're talking to Jensen, he is not will give you chips until 2028 year.

You know, when do you get land, energy, particles and shells. So it is very difficult. say: "Yes, I can" build your own data centers", but this empty threats. It very difficult build. I would be stable. By the way, I don't I manage 50 data centers all over the world. We we only use 10-20 megawatts per conclusions.

So this is good conceptual idea—to become independent and build your own conclusions, but rather after all, the answer somewhere in the middle. Me will have to take " "bare iron", yes. Most likely, I I will get it from hyperscaler or its analogue, or someone will sew capacity from all over the world, so that satisfy my need, hoping that with sometimes I will switch to something more reliable and stable.

OK. So, Nikesh, in you are hybrid there decision. One second . I just want finish this. Do you have hybrid solution cyber issues, while in We haven't run out of time. . Then you take a bunch models with open code so you can analyze tokens chain of thoughts. Is there this is a typical solution for the majority companies from the list Fortune 500 or Global 2000?

I think we're up to it. We will come. I expect that someday we will see, as hyperscalers will provide "naked" "iron" and will allow us run models with open source. They already make it certain to a certain extent. Probably so. will be, because this is a question profitability, truth? It all depends.

from where directed flow profits. Today they are concentrated in Nvidia and the industry memory, but they are moving to hyperscalers, those, who has big computational power, because with sometimes less and less It will be about chips. More will be said about accessibility calculations, because I I think that demand insatiable.

Demand enough. Demand more than you and I we can imagine. Therefore, Yes. True. I understand the comment. about corporate spread, but it it will spread anyway. The question is, even if each company in the world today will say: "I am in game". "I am in the game". "I ready." "I accept AI". "Let's move as soon as possible".

In the world not enough computational capacities to satisfy us. True. We invited you, Nikesh, not only because that you are wonderful, and you now a little, uh, " base". He is the best friend. He was very quiet, invisible. I think I see. Nikesha every 48 hours. No, David. We we constantly come across one on one another.

I mean, every time when they play " Knicks and Warriors, Nikesh invites me. to sit with him. So this is perfectly. Hmm, is there such a thing? It falsehood. I just I visualize. Um, Scott Grace thinks I can visualize. Oho, how can I visualize. The Boy from Brooklyn visualizes. If you want to leave my 11-year-old son, you are always welcome guest.

OK. I like it. quite suitable. He is always searching, he always looking for someone, Who can you go with? So you can be next you, Jason. No, I, I'm happy to I will sit with him if the seats will be near site or in second row. He, he will take care of you. That's right. Uh, but now reigns cyber panic.

Frankly speaking, for the last few days AI discovered two serious vulnerabilities that affect more part of the internet. Here's what happened. PHP, programming language with open source, on which employs about 70 %of all websites— remember WordPress, Wikipedia —under threat. IN August researchers security, using AI, found two, one, two critical vulnerabilities , which called PHP two shell.

PHP Security Team rated it 9.2 points out of 10 on a scale seriousness. Essentially, it's DEFCON 1 for these security teams. WITH August developers and companies together worked on corrections. It standard procedure . And the plan was to so that you can relax to release them one by one major update 22 October, on the day when we record this podcast.

In a few days before release information about vulnerabilities leaked into the network. Nobody knows how it is. happened. This will become part of the analysis this week cyberattack. So PHP postponed the release to one day earlier, on Wednesday, October 21. And in Wednesday began hell. AWS reported about the surge hacker activity, and CEO Cloudflare, a friend of the podcast, said that they also seen by millions hacking attempts.

A series of events took place preventive outages. Governments by throughout Europe—in France, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, etc.— started to turn off websites. Wikipedia turned off some of the their systems only for in order to establish correction. IN United States The NSA and FBI released a bunch of warnings, and now everyone has started panic.

People are beginning to think that Bitcoin will be hacked, their websites will be hacked, their banking accounts will be broken. It a little chaotic, and there is still second subproblem regarding agents who gain access to banks that arose simultaneously. You you are involved in security, you have a lot here various products and services.

When you first learned about this and how much is this seriously? This is sharp is it a problem? precursor future events? Or will this happen every 10 days during next year, because these models became incredibly powerful in that we call cyber-, that is, cybersecurity, and not just cyberpunk? Jason, I think so.

10 days is too much long. Got it. I think this is will take place much faster than every 10 days. I believe, part of the problem is about what we said: technological debt, which we all will have to return sooner or later. What happened was that people didn't paid attention to the fact that what do they need to fix yours systems.

This client, as soon as they could—I talked to IT director today in the morning—had a problem with PHP. They have a lot. websites. Some working on the most modern software provision, so they can install the patch. Some work on older versions that cannot be updated. Them they have to turn off and remodel.

But You know what? They did nothing with because used old versions, because considered it unimportant. Therefore, now they have to disable these websites. They are going to update them, apply the patch and run again. We learned about it a few days ago. We scanned the entire our infrastructure, to make sure of absence of problems.

We made sure that for our customers, which deploy our products available patches. So, there are two ways to solve this problem, right? First: you can simply install patch for vulnerabilities. You come in, find code, apply patch provided by PHP and that's it works. Another way —add this to protection product perimeter, like ours, or like Cloudflare or others firewalls.

You install the patch there. This is a virtual patch, so any the attacker, who tries use vulnerability, stops at perimeter, because we We know what he's looking for. There are two solutions. . They are primarily CDNs, delivery network content, and this acts as first line of defense, because the attacks are not reach the very servers.

But if they still get there servers as far as I know I understand they can execute code on them , and some certificates security were extremely unreliable and easy were hacked. Closed models they're actually saying, "Hey , these are cyber risks, so we should be very "careful." I know, that Anthropic did this with Mythos, when involved you, a bunch of other people and 50 companies, saying: " Okay, now.

protect yours systems". Or helped here closed models? Or they were the ones who helped you find these CVEs? Open to us behind the scenes. Closed models can be useful because OpenAI, Anthropic, and more likely everything, and Google, have very powerful now models that, if given they have enough computational resources and perseverance, will find vulnerabilities .

They can even to combine vulnerabilities, so that find a way to attack , isn't it? If they can solve Navier's equation Stokes, then they will be able combine four vulnerabilities. And if give them huge computational power, they everyone will try possible ways. Actually , the PHP problem was decided by with the help of permanent calculations.

This the problem was discovered a few years ago, but no one believed that it can be solved because it was too demanding a lot of coordination. So, this is what happened: if you throw computational resources for the solution, it worked and found a way break the system. As only they found a way to break it, they published results or were able to conduct reverse engineering.

Every hacker now knows how to do it, because there is a problem with the patches in that hackers smart. They looking at the patch, see what he has to do, to carry out reverse engineering and they say: "Okay, if I will follow the path. reverse engineering, I I can break those who didn't install the patch ".

It seems that a lot today's the noise that rises—and this, it seems, will change daily—applies to access to bank accounts . Do you think that this is happening mainly because frontend, via website where the agent enters the system via browser from username? For it seems like a lot What can come of this?

from news or other personal agents that are included in your bank account, to get information about transactions, and banks see all this activity and such: "Oh Oh my God, is this authorized? Not authorized? The traditional way, which banks provided data access accounts, was carried out via API using verified applications where I am like user, as consumer, came in, you know, in your mint.com account, and he had a legal access point to, uh, Amex or Bank of America.

Plaid— this is a mediator. Yes. So there are a bunch of these intermediaries, who then provide this possibility applications. Or will lead to this eventually to a world where banks just turn it off access to sites and They will say that no one can log in to the site, because technically agents can do it, and they are not able to do this control?

Hmm, how What do you think it will be like? to develop in relation to consumer financial services? Because I I actually think that this will be great part of the media cycle during the next a week or two. If Do you want to answer? Yes, I think it's two. different things, David. I think, reason, because which the banks discovered, uh , certain unauthorized access to your accounts, perhaps is a PHP problem.

Because their sites can be broken, and they were able to pass through them and get account details. I am not I think. These are two different problems. One is unauthorized access that happens because people are not, you know, these steel sites vulnerable to breakage. I think, friend. the problem you are talking about remember, it is problem personal agents .

So far, most personal agents use your credentials for entrance. Therefore, the bank It becomes difficult to decide, is that really you come in, is this yours agent who has your account details, comes from your name. They can't distinguish your traffic or traffic agent. They both enter through website.

They actually included as you, through your browser, and try to make a transaction. Now, as you know, there is this technological captcha, who is trying determine that it is not those, this is not an agent who, or is it some kind of bot or the receiving agent account access instead of you. Of course, there are ways, you know, confirm captcha using artificial intelligence, so you don't even you need to have a person on the other end.

So this too okay with that copes. Pretty good copes. This, this actually sometimes I have to squint in order to to see what it is What the hell are you typing? Yes, "click on all the bikes on this picture. Like, this takes you three attempts at our age with our sight. But What's interesting here? there is also a hybrid, Friberg, this is your, um, your muse agent, your bot Grok, which runs virtual browser.

He opens virtual browser and says, "Hey, figure it out." this captcha." "and then takes control of himself". So, Nikesh, are you this is fear, uncertainty and doubts—old FUD from banks to try neutralize or block access these agents to banking services, because then they could just direct you to the bank, which cheaper, better or has better rates on behalf of the agent.

I mean, this is it would be too much a great honor for them . OK. I think I think I I think that now fundamental the challenge that lies ahead they stand for—this problem responsibility. Look, this is how call to support services your favorite bank and say: "I don't I know how much 50,000 dollars is.

disappeared from my account . "I didn't do that." Yes. True? What is the "Spirit of the Rhino" "? I don't know what this is. like this. And the challenge that lies ahead they stand for, —this to hold, to hold Continue. Nikesh. Not get distracted. Not get distracted. The challenge is that we number one is not easy Yes.

The challenge is that you provided their accounts agent data. You didn't even understand, that he received your data. He lives in your browser, on your laptop. He will receive many of your credentials. And I I think the biggest the problem we are facing we will collide, it is question: who carries responsibility and who reports for this.

Banks say: "I don't I allow you interact with me through your agent, point. "True? They they are shouting about it warning from the rooftops: "It won't be mine." fault. "Look, banks had to...not forget it, it's probably not even a question value. It's like responsibility second plan. Remember, banks...we We all know that.

For example, for credit cards for amounts below a certain amount they don't want borders nothing to complain about. They give you back money, because the cost call to service support is higher than the amount with which they would have to have matter. Now, if in There will be a bunch of you. such agents who they are doing something, and you start calling bank for clarification , you will create huge expenses.

I I think, to be honest, That's what they are for. are leading. Okay, you have it. unique, unique position, Nikesh, because you communicate with people, which are being hacked or already broke, and you help them prevent hacking with the help of everything this set of services Palo Alto Networks. So, I I want to introduce you.

with several theories on the impact of AI on safety. Tell me, is it Do you agree with them? No. The first is to because it is significant will depend to a large extent on the one who has the largest computational power. AND because "white "hats" have access to larger resources, they will be able to surpass in calculations " black hats, in other words, hackers.

It the statement is true, or not yet, and maybe will become like this in future? Others in the words of Palo Alto Networks, OpenAI or someone else could use so many capacities to protect systems, that a bunch of hackers in North Korea, Russia, China, etc. they just won't have such firepower and lose.

Truth, it's not true when it is will it become true? Today it is not true, because the basic systems are not designed or not orchestrated like this so that we can to launch, say, defensive swarms, because everything configured separated, right? If if it was true, then by definition you can would be to send a bunch of agents to they updated PHP if you wanted.

IN companies 5000 websites, and you know What? Their priority will catalog each of them, because they gather everything together, understand their condition, so I think we should need to bring infrastructure to basic level readiness, where there is technological debt. Let me go to the following thesis and theories: constant code analysis computers and more serious attitude to proactive measures will solve this problem.

Now we have transition, when people accumulated technical debt, about which you said, but AI will solve this problem, because there will be permanent tools from such companies, like yours, or others, or internal decisions that constantly will check systems to find vulnerabilities earlier for hackers.

Will it be? final stage? true false short term truth, long-term truth , explain to us. Truth. Today almost every big company in corporate sector is busy using Metasploit analogues to try to penetrate one's own protection, find gaps and fix them. Challenge, as you understand, is that the next model will be more powerful.

She will find more ways to penetrate in your infrastructure. Therefore, you will play this game in "cat and mouse" and constantly will be engaged correction. I think , Jason, there is something another view on this: let's assume a second that you will break. OK? For there are so many vulnerabilities that you can spend a lot money for fixing everything suborder.

The question becomes not so much about how I was broken and what? vulnerability to skip attackers. The question is how I will be able to do them quickly. detect and how quickly put out the door? Mhm. Of course. Our advice to people: build infrastructure so— and today it is possible , —to collect all signals and all data so that you could track abnormal behavior with the help of those computational capacities of "white" hackers" that you are talking about You mentioned it, right?

Ago What do I have more of? computational capacities. Continue. Yes. But I will let you. take the floor. Third point: advanced models cause a lot this chaos, because they restrict access to the most powerful solutions for cyber defense, while the community open source provides more functional opportunities for "whites" hackers", teams security and CISO for real solution problems, and developers advanced models need somehow change the approach to implementation of this technology.

Are they part of this problems because access restrictions technologies and what not give to "white hackers" » full power? What you said earlier, it is diplomatic the answer, you eat You are too flattering. Yes. I think your theory gives them too much credit of trust. Again anyway, remember, that most of them— this is first of all researchers.

They sit and say, "Wow, this is extraordinary powerfully. What do I have to do with this? do?" And they are talking to us, asking: "What do I have to do with "What should I do with this?" Now remember that these models so much ahead of time, that they still are are trying understand how they to release, as to pack, how much computational resources they will consume, and they all limited in computational capacities, right?

So they all limit access speed for all of us, even if I have access to the newest publicly available models, I don't care limited in speed. Yes? So there are many problems. Therefore I do not I think they are cause a problem . They just are trying to cope with the fact, what are these things extremely powerful.

What they would like is to understand this, how to earn money from this. Mhm. Because they want compete with you? No, they just need money for development. They all are. listen to your conversations about needs in computational capacities and that Where will they come from? money. They are not are trying compete.

They just trying to get to profits, because they want a lot of money, because they have to to bring them back, you know, Jensen. So, this is their main problem. Yes. Let me put you hypothetical question. I will ask. all of you. I I use one of such agents services. I am a consumer. I give him mine. credentials from bank account .

Let's take yours. example. 50,000 disappear dollars. I don't know what. happened. Maybe I contacted the agent, which I use, well, say, Instinct, Muse or something like that. Or copies A. Everyone points fingers one on one one. Maybe this prompt injection. Who knows? Maybe an agent just got out from under control and transferred 50 thousand.

Let's let's just assume that it is possible. 5 thousand, well , because it is below a certain threshold. Who carries? responsibility? Okay, Friedberg, who carries responsibility? AND who should carry responsibility? Who carries? responsibility? Who should carry? responsibility? Well, in the conditions bank service It is said that it is not possible.

use agent to access bank account through the website, right? Has it been said now? Yes. So, considering these terms of service if the agent does not have built-in function for recognition this and blocking access, then I think, what is the problem software responsibility agent supplier . If only he didn't warns you: "This violates the terms service, you Do you want to cancel mine?

block and do it?" Now responsibility passed on to you as user. And we have evidence of this. , Chamat. Um, not in banking sector, and in electronic form commerce. Amazon blocked them, and later Grok now says you in my bot for shopping on Amazon: "I I can't anymore. place an order for you, but I can add the product to your basket.

Tell me which one address and which card choose, and I will do everything I will prepare, but not I will press the button. shopping". So this the issue is resolved in real time time, and I think that That's exactly what we did. We will come. Nikesh, what do you think? You. Yes. I think, I think, well because we all have to undertake responsibility for empowerment of agents powers and giving them our data.

You can't to say that I gave your credit This is the only solution. I gave my credit card Chamat card. He went and spent on her 20,000 dollars. Who responsible? Bank? No way. It Chamat? Yes, he is, but... I gave it to him myself. Yes. What about as an agent? Chamate, uh, says, “I programmed to be most useful .

"You know, these flattering agents, and he takes and says: "I found way. You know, I found a way. In fact, if I I will run this type. browser and I'll delete it human behavior, I I think I can do it. make. "This is what will make many of these agents: they will try to please you, and they will find this, so for I would be inclined to platform that provides agent.

No, Jason, Jason, no, it's you. It your responsibility. The word "agent" has concept " "Agentiality". Someone should empower the agent agentiveness. Okay. Who empowers the agent? agentive? Are you Facebook? I think you are you give the right to act on your behalf. AND if you are the one who provides that's right, you carry responsibility.

Yes, I think that with practical point sight, this is the only scalable solution , because when these court cases will happen lawsuits, incentive each, is available on corporate meaning stimulus...BofA will point to Facebook, Facebook will point to user. It the only way in which this thing continues so scale.

But Chamate, there is exceptional case. AND I think Jason said it with his own in words, you said it, but we didn't stop on this. It called "agent- "exile". That's it. question responsibility for product. If the product doesn't behave like he must behave, true, then there arises responsibility platforms.

On mine opinion, it sounds like: " Wait, you said that "He does just that." And today, when you you buy any product in the world if the product does not do what what is stated in the advertisement , uh, he becomes " "exile", then this the fault of the one who created a product. AND This is where it lies.

problem. Foggy territory, which goes like this: "Hey, he can do 140 He is able to perform 140 tasks. You know, just maybe not completely. Let me to give you question in essence. We incubated a company Obliteration AI. And what this company does... Nice name. Yes, and "destroyed" models, maybe people don't know about them, but they will understand that this is it.

This company somewhat contradictory provides models that are not have no restrictions, none fuses, and this your responsibility, when you have a red one team ", team, which goes out and tests various vulnerabilities, to create these...What you think about this new one, somewhat controversial... Stand before you you will continue.

Let me just to say before you you will continue. I think " "destruction" is incredible scary. This is a vector risk, which is now incredibly underestimated. Because, as you rightly noted, Jason, this is very remote prospect. Not enough people understand that this is it. But I think what exactly is this about, even more than about consistency, people It's worth thinking about.

Sorry, Nikesh, I pass the word to you. Yes, Nikesh, go on tell us What do you think about these? services. Well, I guess that's it. the dark side of artificial intelligence. I have on I mean, we spent all these debates in The White House. Many Which one of you was present. We talked about responsibility, consistency and that to check everything in advance.

The problem is that you depend on the weakest link. If the company provides you unlimited AI power without no fuses, without any built-in or possible mechanisms control, then you actually give nuclear bomb in hand to anyone who has it will want, because they they can afford it to allow That's what problem.

Because on we are on the same level we say we need global treaties for control development of AI for the sake of common good. WITH on the other hand, we we say that it can to exist a company, which will allow you to have so powerful technology without no control, without fuses and without regulation.

It's like say: "Hey, here you go creation kit aspirin by hand. Have fun. You can make your own medicine. Have fun. Sometimes I'm wrong, but don't worry hereby". Or just give powerful to someone tools for to build something safer, for example, to reduce wall. I don't understand what's wrong. consists of business your model companies.

Your company in essence offers " responsibility for product as a service. No, this is a provision access to "white" hackers" and corporations in strict limited conditions. IN them the same list customers, as in Nikesha and Palo Alto Networks. There are people who need access to this for proper testing and increase reliability of systems.

So, you have a higher level responsibility, you don't provide this free. How is this? Claude did. But, Jason, you Do you mean that? they guarantee that when you implement this is in infrastructure and conduct testing , these models will not work out of control? Well, this is yours. responsibility manage the model, and not to give it to anyone whom.

Yes, if you are the NSA or Morgan Stanley, maybe you need it. No, this is providing access " "white hackers" and corporations. They have the same list of clients that and Nikesh and Palo Alto Networks. There are people who need access to this for proper testing and increase reliability of systems. So you have a higher level responsibility, and not easy free provision access, as it did Claude.

But you know, you take on yourself responsibility, and this is very interesting situation. Why historically accumulates technical debt and whether there is this is one of the main causes of cyber threats? Is it all because of corporations ignore safety and technical debt, and we just need to change this to to the new world, to solve the problem, putting safety in first place?

Nobody wants work on these things. I mean, that the problem is that when you launch something in working order, everyone wants to work over something new and better. Nobody perceives technical service as something attractive. It firstly. Second, if you deploy it's in your own virtual private cloud, the problem is that software vendors do not have one version, which is constantly is being updated.

Occurs problem disagreements: you have one version, Nikesh's another, at Free Brook the third, and all of them are not synchronized. AND now you, how software developer, forced support 19 versions, because in everyone has their own pace and update schedule and migrations. Besides, technology constantly are changing, and the methods work quickly are developing, but that what has already been done is sunk costs, and you can't just take and replace everything for a new one.

Multiply this for millions of companies and hundreds of trillions lines of code, and that's it so we have this situation. And Chamat, add to this problem incentive matching. Directors from informational technology (CIO) is not have incentives support the most modern infrastructure. Their stimulate to contain costs at a low level and provide constant availability all systems.

So every time you want to update something, this creates a risk of failure or stoppage of work. It's like: I don't want to constantly everything to change, because all my users complain, because every time you update or change something, this causes friction in system, and then costs money. When last time your CIO came and said: " Yes, great.

Here you go more money and a larger budget for "new toy." This is a real tragedy. And you can see is it, say, in the CIA or FBI. If not terrorist attacks, people say :"We spend too much money. "But you can say: "Or we spend equally as much as we need it, because we have more there was no 9/11." And when they come to us and they say, "Hey, we need more, because, judging by the fact that we we see, God forbid, one more thing might happen 9/11".

And then Congress or someone who has the right to distribute budget, says, "You know, we won't give you more money, because in 20 years "Nothing happened." This, in fact, is the essence problems because they receive recognition only then, when something changes. Because there's a lot waiting for us" the 9/11 terrorist attacks "in cyberspace.

Yes. Yes, Chamate, phones they call every day, and conversation now always comes down to one thing:" How do I get out of this? get out? ""Because I tired every morning to wake up with feeling like me "They hit me in the face." People for real will evaluate the director with informational security (CISO) and its command when the system will work again after the break.

Next year or it will be around then cruel, right? It It will be a time of great changes. . Nikesh. I think CISOs can to become the next CEOs. Think about it. If you believe that for three years each function of your business wants to transform by with the help of AI. Let's let's look at positive, right?

My financial director never wanted AI. AND now he says, "Dude, I could do the whole thing this financial analysis "." Simply assign me to a team of several specialists. Their marketers want. Their HR department wants. So almost everyone the unit wants more specialists with AI, which never was in history.

All want, everyone need specialists with AI. And that's exactly it. will happen. Everyone subdivision, instead of to wait for IT scientists or specialists in AI wants the CISO came and helped them. Then who will rule? company? What percentage of total expenses enterprises spend on security and how it should be ideal?

I'm just curious. IN I don't have one. information. Usually, if talk about IT budget, then the expenses for cybersecurity are from 4 to 10%, of course? And 10% is usually an indicator for financial services and the federal government, because they want to be sure that everything safely and reliably.

Um, 4% could be cloud platforms, because there hyperscalers take question for yourself security infrastructure. You remains to be taken care of only about safety applications and software software. So in the result is from 4 to 5%. This is it. range. You can get from 4-5% to 8-10%. Yes. And this indicator will have to raise.

And there is, um, there is The problem, in my opinion, which you are talking about. If the company has AI experts, we must create new products and services for customers. Um, we only live once. Jason Jason this is a whole...I somehow I was joking the other day, but This is true. Look, a whole new one appeared the category we we don't even know how to encompass—AI.

Nobody knows. Imagine if I said: "Great." You know what? Expand AI in my company and make sure he/she safe. "Well, The boss says: "Whatever you didn't do it, make sure that you can check chains of reasoning agents "." Light say. Hard make. How do I find all agents, What are they working on now? It seems we haven't yet.

created the necessary protection tools for AI. I'm kidding: when invented airplanes, the Wright brothers were there, and no one said: " Let's create a TSA." It's time. We must build security already now, because it's too early It will happen late. " So, people are excited implement and use AI. You I don't know if you saw it.

Did you see today? in the morning, what kind of the researcher found that if sent dialogue to someone else, can be extracted private information. Now they have to to return to drawings and patches holes. All experimenting, but we should have already understand that need to create AI protections , and we don't even started.

Bernie Sanders writes today on Twitter:" Look at this. madness. It abnormally. Stop the AI ​​immediately. " So, you are in a room with Bernie Sanders. Someone says: "Nikesh, we need you to saved America. Meet Bernie Sanders. "You You get on the plane. You fly there. You Go into the room. AND The man says: "We must stop AI now.

What is yours? respond? How are you? are you going to solve this problem? Nikesh, Aurora, how do you like her? Will you solve it? " I said, "Sounds like great idea. Come on. Why don't you start? "I'm following you." . Looks like I did it. AND then you know, with all the Respectfully, that's interesting.

We for the first time so much focused on dark side history of technology, and I don't know why. Maybe you can Explain to me. We we spend so much time for obsession dark side technologies, and mine the thesis is that this started with "baptized" "parents" or whatever they are called to name the creators of this technology.

They too exaggerate and too much emphasis on dark aspects, creating such narrative. I think we change needed narrative. Think about it. themselves. We only hear about everything bad that this technology does. Oh my god, I have rockets. Wait, in I feel a little worse. My The boy jumped over. . Wait, my.

jumped over 6 more months ago. Oh, my even worse. Like, dude. , this is not the best narrative. This is a competition. in the one who will drop lower, with narrative perspective. Nikesh, what do you think? why Bernie Sanders and others use this moment? I know, we talked about it before, but what prompts Bernie Sanders is so active speak out against AI, stop AI?

Is this struggle for power, because they see that a system arises power they do not control which have no influence, that reduces their power, Is there anything simpler than it? David, here I am. I'm calling a friend. You lot more competent in answers to these question than me. Jason and Chamat, probably better prepared answer these question than me.

Yes. Yes. Yes. This is populist topic. If people in laboratories say you that half office workers will be left without work that all drivers will go away and that 10% people can die. I mean, what great topic for populist, to to join her, regardless of whether Are you a populist? "America above all else" business or liberal left.

It's simple. great way to attract attention people, get voices and perhaps help win next elections. Nikesh, we are grateful that you came, you are very busy, and this, it seems, the most stressful time, which can only be , right? How is yours going? day? Did you succeed? to sleep? I have on I mean, you really wake up customers at one o'clock in the morning with with a request: "Hey, I advanced needed engineers immediately"?

I I mean that is happening in your life? Yes. I woke up at third. Arrived at East coast. After that again I will get on the plane and I will return home because I have to make it to dinner with clients. Madness. This is really crazy time for you, man. You are not Are you sleeping? I know. Yes, I do.

I like it. Yes, It's time for a hard time. labor. OK. I like it. Thank you Nikesh for joined us. I need to invite you. for the full release, so that to discuss the whole a number of questions. Thank you, Nikesh. You are so cool. Subscribe to Nikesha in X. He does this is every day. He publishes one tweet on day, and it's in style Nikesha.

OK. Thank you, Jason. OK. Next questions in order daytime. Is this the fall of France, Gentlemen? We talked. about this two weeks ago. The situation in France— This, oh my God. Well, the country burning. It got even worse. Over half a million people participated in protests. They already spread to Italy, Spain, Albania and several others regions.

These Weekend France survived the worst riots for decades, and they They like to rebel. So, this is the highest mark. Numbers quite impressive. Data New York Times from French correspondent. They good at this. It their element. Pro-protesters . About- protesters. They are professional. rebels, for sure.

It maybe their favorite occupation. For us it's like football. For them, it is riots. Over 3000 enterprises, Chamate, suffered damage. Have you seen these videos? of course, they are everywhere in trends. Hundreds millions in damages. 4000 police officers wounded. 2500 people already arrested. 70%of them—adults men.

You too remember, it was protest high school students, because schools were neglected and underfunded. That's all from this. started. Now this turned into solid civil riots and looting. Sprat historical government buildings, unfortunately, were burned. In particular , 143-year-old city hall in city ​​250 miles away south of Paris— Limoges.

Limoges. Beautiful name. Beautiful building. It hurts a lot. to watch her is collapsing. For what? So that they can modernize schools in France. It seems like here is happening much more. France, after all, introduced curfew . Why not this? did it on the first day day—I don't understand. Quote from the New York Times: “ French Government accused ultra-left militants and marauders- opportunists in kindling violence." President Trump and Vice President Vance called it a problem immigration from countries third world and welfare state.

This is what the minister said justice of France. Among the rebels, I quote: "people immigrant origin, foreigners, but there are also those who fully integrated and is by the French." Our partner, Polymarket, estimates at 18% the probability that France will announce state of emergency to end of the year.

Simultaneously investors get rid of French debt. Friedberg, 10 years old French bonds this week exceeded 5%—this the highest score with 2002. On the other hand , and this is a constant the problem here in the US is 10- one-year bonds for the first time in a month fell below 5%. Wall Street The Journal notes that this may be related to because people are running away from EU debts and buy US debt.

Polymarket, our long-term podcast partner All-In", says there are 91% the probability that Moody's or S&P will downgrade France ranking up to 31 October. Therefore, Let's stop there. Chamat, when you see this, and you in the summer spending time in Italy , which we are talking about, of course, we are talking here in podcasts.

You see that this happens in Italy. What is yours? conclusion from what we do we see? It's painful to watch. because of what is happening. Let's be frank. I think that these people are absolute criminals. They all terrorists, and all of them should be arrested. AND I think that this is demonstrates the result the "so-called" one empathy, which all these professed governments.

This is just disguised way encouragement of the city chaos. And I don't know how the policeman can to consider it appropriate to be sent to this push to actually guard Christian Dior store in the 7th district of Paris. That's right. pointless. So, these people created powder keg and conditions for this to happen.

And they did it. because not even want to admit that this is it. Even when Macron spoke at state television, he tried to speak about this in context suffering, which these people supposedly feel. When you look at these shots, these are not people who suffer. These are people, who sow chaos, violence and terrorism—domestic terrorism.

And I think, What is needed for this? answer incredibly tough. AND then you need to decide significantly a broader problem. And, as You said, Jason, I think it's France now. will be in incredibly difficult economic situation . We have already talked about that France is critically important a country that will set the tone for the rest continental Europe regarding financing it long-term debts.

She already offered 50 billion euros budget savings. This the amount will have to increase. I am not I understand how in the mode austerity you can invest in things like education, to satisfy these people, if that is the case the real reason their riots and protests. Government ended up in hopeless situation .

I think they future losers presidential elections . And, I think, on us A very difficult one awaits reboot French bureaucracy and economy. It harbinger of many changes that will come, because average French citizen should not tolerate that what now happening in their country. Friedberg, what is yours?

thought: when could to be completely correct peaceful protests, protests high school students—this perfectly. They have certain complaints, they created a lot elements democratic systems, based on which we built America. They were great pioneers democracy and protest movement. A perfectly legal form protest, peaceful going out into the street, and then this turns into something that, at least, is simply incredible criminal, and potentially, in interpretation of Shamas, terrorist.

AND definition of terrorism —terrorize people for the sake of their own political goals— yes, it seems like it falls under definition. So what is this? means to you? Is there this is a harbinger of what awaits us ahead, and can we we will see again outbreaks of such in The United States? Remember, we have there were BLM riots, there were riots 6 January.

We had our own a series of riots here, and they had a very similar scenario: people who felt that their not properly represent politically or socially, and in some in these cases passed into criminal looting and incredible violence. What is yours? Thoughts, Friedberg? I think it's a bit confusion of concepts— add something here other.

In what sense? I think those events had quite sharp political or socio-political reasons. This same the situation seems much wider than scale. So, if you will see some an interview on the street, then you will hear a wide range of complaints from people who take participation in riots. All: from schools and "free" Palestine" before that, that the government is not doing enough for us in the field health care, support or employment, and we not enough employed.

There are so many dissatisfaction, but the goal is to force the government to do more for people. A lot has happened. immigration, and all these immigrants who are coming, expect the government to will provide them everything you need. They promised that the government will provide them. AND over time, state providing for people, what were we talking about many times, never, never, never will be constant answer.

Decentralized the government does not have accountability. There is no progress. None opportunities for economic growth. None opportunities to create the right system incentives. So, what more government tries to provide people, the more people are disappointed. We saw this in United States, as on me, with three things that the government tries to ensure: health care, housing and education.

AND the more the government spends, trying to provide these things, the worse they are become even less they are available. That what happened in France. Therefore, take a look at this diagram. This diagram shows state expenses in percentage from GDP. Its published research group RAND. And you can see comparison government spending France in percentage from GDP with peaks indicators government spending big communist countries.

The Soviet Union in 1989 year. diagram for your review Communist Romania , Venezuela under Chavez, and then communist China. This is incredible. So how you think France— this is communist state? Well, it looks like that. Well, that's definitely it. was socialist the state, right? Or Does this work? No, actually, that's it.

my opinion. And I think, What is this? current lesson for West. We all we think there is some political problem with Macron or whoever It wasn't there. Than the more the government spends, the worse they become conditions for his people , and not vice versa. And then people go out protests and uprisings, claiming that the government spends not enough and should do more.

AND Now guess. Turn that one around. diagram. Try it guess where today USA. What percentage of our GDP? 20 20% Yes, I meant to say 25 . Yes. Federal spending government accounts for 7.4 trillion. Costs state governments and local authorities power—4.6. If you add them together, it will be 12 trillions of dollars with a GDP of 33 trillion.

US government spending are approximately 36% of GDP. Okay, we're about at this level. France today, well, the same as the USA. It about 120% of the debt to GDP. Deficit state budget France today is 5.4% of GDP. IN In the USA this indicator actually amounts to 6.2% of GDP. I think France, probably the first to experience collapse, because their the economy is growing only half a percent, while the US is growing , you know, by 2.3%.

So we We're still holding on somehow, because we have a certain level of economic growth, which allows us to maintain the situation. But I would argue, what we are facing the same fiscal the abyss that leads to extraordinary social riots, as in France. All economic indicators coincide or on on the same level, we we have the same set problems, and we start to see cracks in system.

I think that France is indicator for the West. You can add all here immigration issues, because I really think that's a big part problems. When you open the border, to let people in for growth economy, you promise they eat something, they actually pouring oil on the fire, situation is getting worse, and this becomes real problem.

Fundamentally socialism destroys progress. It limits everyone's potential, setting for all the same minimum. And that's exactly it. potential limitation leads to such problems when no one doesn't feel like he can evolve. And how only the quality drops, because you removed everything incentives in the system, everyone starts to feel incredible discontent.

France, I think, is one first in line, but if we don't fix it work in others Western countries, I think , we may find ourselves in the same pit. AND This worries me very much. I I think we should to watch this, as it is, and to be very balanced, because our policy, on sorry, it's getting a bit more restless before these by-elections, and I am very worried about the next two years.

What specifically, in your opinion? Do you think it's worth doing? Reduce costs, reduce the deficit GDP, reduce programs. Okay, but wait. Allow me, allow me I object. Yes. Let me just for a second to deny Therefore, you know what, on our opinion, there is the root cause of this? Let's focus. on young people.

Young people are not very optimistically looks to the future. Yes. Isn't that right? They have many difficulties: financial, career , as well as social. I mean, their social progress slowed down compared to others generations. Above them like the sword of Damocles, certain things are hanging over, for example, pensions.

I I'm sure they don't understand it to the end , but if they were on thought for a moment that sooner or later for these their parents' pensions and grandparents will have to pay themselves. So how about us? fix it for them? What should we do? I think there are four. main reasons of this, which can solve directly.

It education, housing, health care and pension system. For each of these questions, probably exists a long-term solution. Regarding education, I think, we need to collapse the federal program student loans. I many times already I said this, and I think that in the process we must write off a significant part existing student debts.

I think this is necessary. So, cancel guarantees for at the federal level, but also write off existing debts of those who has them. Need a complex mechanism for cancellation student debts, perhaps because bankruptcy or something similar to repeal that law, which made this impossible. I will add from myself: I extremely I am favorable until canceled student debts.

I don't think it has to. be like that—I think they always had to be written off due to bankruptcy, I I fully support this. idea. This must happen. in parallel with cancellation federal program student loans. Then it will happen optimization of all institutions and cost their education, because everyone educational institutions will begin to adapt to market.

This will take about 10 years. This is not will happen overnight . Therefore we need firm commitment to make it happen during the next decades. In the field we need housing to do something like that with residential loans that constantly inflating house prices, and solve the problem that which is significant part of the middle class...

But keep going. with your list. Continue with the list, because I have one critical question in the end, because yours the list looks like logical only on first glance. Then I think we should need to do pension programs with certain payments, including Trust fund social insurance, illegal. I believe that all programs with certain payments should be translate to programs with defined contributions , say, during ten years.

IN process each gets what he wants belongs to social insurance, and this is counted, according to in essence, on individual retirement account or some other account, as if they were not named now. And the whole system social insurance is canceled, and now everyone owns capital. Pension funds like us discussed about Australia.

We just Let's move on to this. What resistance can it have? call, Friberg? Because people lose guaranteed income. But instead of do it all at once, you would be recounting 10% of the total amount social insurance that you belongs to, every year within the next 10 years. So, you do 10-year transitional a period when everyone gets his money.

Investing them in the market . Yes, great. Yes, and then people can choose a plan 40/60 or 80% plan bonds, or any what other plan, depending on your age. Do the same with health care. Healthcare is the most difficult, but I I think that with housing and health care everything much more difficult, however fundamentally this should be passed on corporations that hire people to they went out insurance market, and this forces the market insurance reduce prices and improve services.

But there are two things that This is hindered. Wait, so, so, HIPAA and regulations residential construction—these are two things that get in the way price reduction in the field health care and housing. So you need to solve these questions that are much more complicated , because in the case of housing is a level state and local authorities.

Let me just put question. So, when you are looking at France and Italy and see these riot, important to note that they, theoretically, partially decided two of four problems: they provide free education and free medical service. Of course? You know, how cheap to study in college, Chamate, in France?

I don't know. I don't know. 300 euros per year, and it costs the state about 12,000. So, they study in colleges and master's degrees. When I was in Paris this summer, someone explained me reasons discontent. They they perceive it like this...I trying to find equivalent to that we could consider here social benefits.

They believe that must have opportunity to study in college and Master's degree forever. I ask you, Jason, and I'll ask you...I ask you both, you raise these four questions. The first is feature United States, that is, the problem student debts is purely anomalous a phenomenon that exists in USA, but which is not in some of those Western countries, where we we see unrest.

The second thing we are talking about remembered, —this healthcare, which there actually free. Third, what we mentioned, —this is the education that is there also in fact free. Fourth, what are we talking about? mentioned, you know, this defined benefits against certain contributions, again, the system there problematic because it actually the same system, as we have, and Do you have these pensions?

obligation. But I I want to say that two of four problems there approximately solved. One of the four does not exist at all. AND anyway the riots continue . So, the question is not solved. No, no, I can... wait. I think I I can answer this. . You know, the initial riots when it there were students, there were ordinary, well, you know, maybe They threw bottles a little.

Students do not were engaged in looting. Looting arranged illegal migrants from North Africa and many outraged Muslim immigrants in France, which is not allowed integrate into society; in some in some cases it is Parisians in the second or third generations, which either not themselves integrated, or it's partly your fault native French, who did not give them integrate.

If these people were not there, Chamat, if they weren't there if it were, we wouldn't be doing this conversation. We would just talked about ordinary people who want a little better classes and better correlation teachers to students. It happens because a complete disaster with immigration to Italy, Spain and France.

It is difficult for people to tell everything as it is, but That's exactly how it is. And exactly so, you know, I think, we stopped it here, closing the southern border. And they have it there another type of immigration. These are people who don't want to integrate. If take the average a Mexican who is coming to America, he teaches with joy English, he is from happily integrates in American society and our manners.

This is not the case in Great Britain, Italy and, apparently, in France, as we see. This is a problem. immigration. But Chamat, I don't know, is it true decided, because I think that to make an appointment with a doctor it takes weeks, quality education is low, and you you are sitting in a classroom where 60 children.

That's what children complain. It is obvious that in these riots that are happening, are many other motives, but there is a fundamental feeling depression, which, I I think it's a heavy burden. falls on all this population. And this one depression is that there is the highest caste, which lives better than us, and this unfair, therefore what we were promised, that we We will live well.

Nick, turn this on. the video I sent. I think this demonstrates part of this anger. Look at this. The Chinese became too rich in France. Too rich? AND Is this unfair? Well, I think that's it. unfair. Now they are in the category people with nice clothes and large machines. So, that was an interview.

-answer to the question why participants riots attacked to the stores that belong to the Chinese, and they were destroyed in Paris . So they purposefully choose stores that belong to the Chinese, break them, burn them, because they believe that these immigrants became too successful in France and they are not deserve this success.

And I think that that's what it does with everyone's burden socialism, the burden huge government: if someone looks more successful than that the suffering we face we all encounter, then they probably are problem. They bad. They are. problem. And I think, that exists fundamental support for the movement a free Palestine, for, you know, the fight against patriarchy.

All this is based on to the same thing principle: they are not realize that the reason for such feelings is that the government is already trying to do too much a lot, but can't do it well, because the government is the worst place for provision of services to the population. Well, actually they see any level of success, and that it seems like we we observe in populist movement in the USA: hatred of technologies, hatred for billionaires, and this very common phenomenon in the West, which, on unfortunately, it will continue to happen grow.

Well, there is a message, what are they purposefully attacked Chinese and Jewish enterprises, and, in particular, avoided—this was when everything grew into full-scale riots and terrorism. And avoided Muslim enterprises. That's right. And I, you know, have to to say: thank you To God for a friend amendment.

I don't think so. we would have these here riots on on an ongoing basis. If you remember Riots in Los Angeles Angeles, that was the term "Koreans" "And if you Remember, Koreans? literally rose on their roofs enterprises and protected them in Koreatown Los Angeles, they protected their business. And when you see how these poor owners businesses are trying to protect your case, and they are beaten, Yes.

you just think: " My God, this poor guy small owner business, he invested in "This is my whole life." You You know what to control. small business not easy. And then them they beat, and they are watching how things are going their whole life burns—it unacceptable. I...I I honestly think that need to review first and second amendments.

And I know that I'll get a lot of criticism, but you won't see that in Texas or in Los Angeles Angeles. Let me tell you, as I try to imagine , what is it in the end will end. Yes. So, essentially, you you say that regardless from the one who is to the authorities—left or right —and regardless of facts, you are here showed a graph, with which is evident that France spends more than any communist government in history.

That's all. a real disaster. And there are some people who probably think, that this is not true, and they want even more state intervention, to fix everything. They themselves know that cannot decide problem, so the only who can I contact? to contact—it is the government. Because you won't go to neighbor on the left or right.

That's right. OK. So, this is truth. You are going to government, but sooner or later they are late understand that this The schedule is true. AND they will see this so many times TV, TikTok, X, Facebook or Instagram, what will say: "Wait a minute, I and had no idea that we we spend twice as much more than communist China" .

"I thought the point was that we have to spend as communist China or Russia, because this Socialism is, they say, , better version communism." This is not will work. So who can? fix this? Here's to What am I doing, because regardless of whether what do you think correct, who can fix this? Need Neil Armstrong.

And I...No, I think we back to two things. One that is under our control, and another one, which is under control of large capitals, well, those, whom I euphemistically I call " bond "lynch mobs." These " bond "lynch mobs" can break a spine to the French government. They can do it is economical, essentially, making their national debt impossible for financing.

Side effect this decision will be such an increase long-term the rate at which they will not be able to to serve your debt. And this, in essence, will cause economic reboot inside France. AND for this you need a big deal to try restart these things. The problem is, that every time when this happened in in the past, someone accumulates more authorities and someone thinks about one's own ability to influence the next number of years thereafter reboot.

AND the conversation never goes away about the right thing reboot. The right way would force you to pay attention to pension system, on your comment, implement a bunch rules regarding student ratio and teachers in the classrooms, implement rules regarding waiting time in hospitals. Implement a heap rules on how Are you fast or slow?

you can get permits for construction, and what you you can see in inflation with taking into account the rent fees, etc. You could would do all this if you had a political will. Unfortunately, everything it will not be like that at all. Everything will happen. as he decides, who is in power, who wants to translate blame someone another, and then to hold this power during the next five to ten years after reboot.

Because during reboot you just give it all your rights. So, this is no way out. Then what is it? What is the solution? Then we only remains ask: okay, how Can we all solve this? And you again return to the question of whether there is some kind of panacea? AND the only panacea in which no one wants to believe, —this, you know, we We're talking about this because we believe, like wealth from AI and all these beautiful things .

It just sounds like nonsense. It's like, I don't know if I was someone in France, I would said: AI? What are you talking about? Do you speak at all? A bunch of oligarchs from Silicon Valley? No , thank you. So, it's almost unsolvable problem. It's like an unstoppable force, that occurs with an immovable object.

AND I absolutely cannot. to model in your own none to the head result. I don't see. a clever ending. Therefore, I am completely confused and completely unanswered. Yes, I mean, Look, it depends. from how much The collapse will go far. You can get so social collapse, as in some countries that accompanied riots, murders and everything similar; or you get something for kind of economic collapse, due to which passed Argentina, Brazil and others, and recently—Greece, where impossibility to service the debt due to excessive government expansion forces to restructuring economy.

And so, mass protests everything still ongoing; is happening incredible loss capital; occurs powerful inflationary effect, which is actually destroys value assets for people, and in the end you get somewhat economical reboot without global social breakdown. So you know which way will he choose? I think we We have to do something.

I don't think that in the US we we can have a higher deficit to GDP than in France, with such at the same level public debt to GDP and only a little higher growth economy. I believe that it is important to us need to spend to a certain extent reboot in United States. The question is whether We want mass social reboot, or left and right agree to wear helmets, say:" Okay, time to work.

", and find out how reduce it from seven to half a year to four, without destroying at the same time the economy. I think there are a few solutions that will allow to do this: for example , can be deflated individual sectors, such as higher education system, having canceled federal student loans. You can hit housing market, which will reduce capital middle class by 10 –20%, limiting federal system mortgage lending and reducing the volume the funding we mainly used for artificial support prices so that the average the class remained solvent and felt rich.

The problem is that this is not available now for young people, so they can't buy dwelling. So we we lean against the wall: something has to change. If you are looking for social riots, then nothing do not change. But if do you want them to felt access to opportunities, someone will have to to give in.

Middle class, wealthy classes etc. in the USA will have to to suffer losses in asset value and more carefully pass them on to the youth, that is coming to market. And then you will have to be fixed this pension system, which or overloaded, or underloaded. In both In some cases it is very badly. And here's why after the passage of ERISA all private companies in United States refused programs with certain payments.

The only ones programs with certain payments that remained in the USA, exist in state institutions, because trade union workers the public sector said: we want to keep these payments. And if they switched to programs with certain contributions, including That's all the sadness. If they switched to programs with defined contributions , including social insurance, they have everyone would be much more money.

Everyone would be richer. no need to to doubt this. You can literally to look at what happened in Australia, and to what extent people are satisfied with that that they are forced to be on the market. And in Norway, yes. And in Norway. They they just say if you are forced to do it. And then this week The incredible happened.

a thing that coincides with this: Elon said that is going to give every American to the child, which, in my opinion, opinion, means age under 18, SpaceX share worth 150, 160, 170 dollars, for which she is traded, and this gift for 10 billions of dollars, which, I believe, will be among the largest charitable contributions in history.

And he said that it was just beginning. Nothing. prevents this from happening, you know, something about like a plague among wealthy people— to give a lot part of one's fortune or even small share, but give her directly children who cannot touch her 18 years old . And if we did this part of their pension fund, maybe we could to invest in America under 18 on training, and then to invest in America on the way out pension.

I mean if you shared this and gave one each a share for everyone, this could bring more more profit, or wrong? Jason, what are you doing? Are you thinking about yours? girlfriend Kara Swisher? We are no longer friends. We I haven't been with Kara for a long time. we are friends. I believe that she is one of those, Can you just describe for audience, in what her criticism was Ilona and what was yours?

reaction to it? she had several video. One of them is only one action. Uh, and that they should just to give money to people directly. AND you know the reason why this is incredible meaningless, consists in because it is necessary accept any possible gift, which people are ready make. AND coercion of people keep it makes them part of capitalism .

And Kara Swisher earns 10 million dollars per year for to your podcast. She constantly about it speaks. She belongs to 0.1 or 0.001% . If she were like that virtuous, then small would give half of his profit from podcasts on investment accounts America. And she says they have put Elon in prison. Uh, so what?

Democrats will do that is, if they win. So there is a certain dualism. But she , you know, she's "Karen" and she is a hypocrite. Yes. Can I have something? say about it? Nick, can you take out on the screen a photo of that women in France whose the store was destroyed, which is known activist? You see this, this image?

You see, I don't know, is it true, but The story here is... Yes, the story is, that this woman is famous activist in France, which for a long time advocated opening of borders, admission of immigrants and caring for them. AND she was angry, upset and crying at people on the street, while they were destroying her shop: "You Do you know who I am?

I activist who stood up for you all ". And they didn't care. They just walked in and crushed her shop. And her expression face, as if: "What "What the hell happened?" has to be that moment that reflects the spirit of the times that some calls suicidal empathy. But I think what is the matter more in in order to be, let's say, couch potato benefactor.

Sofa benefactor —this is someone who sits at home, in a good place house in the suburbs or wherever they live, and says: let everyone in people, take care of all people. But how only people appear on their doorstep and They ask: "Can I I will come and stay at your house? Answer: "No, "Of course not." Yes.

Does anyone else have this? understand. Someone another must shelter you in your home. Someone else has provide you with housing. Someone else has you. feed. Someone else should give you a job, because I can't provide You have a place to live. I can't to feed you. I am not I can give you a job. And I think that's what became characteristic of of the entire West: couch potato who says that we we have to do all these good deeds.

But when does it come back boomerang when the price these good deeds returns boomerang, they shocked. Yes. And they are just shocked, They say, wow. AND This, by the way, is what we see. and in the USA. By the way, we had for this term. By the way, Twitter has great videos where these people walk on suburbs and asking: "Hey, you voted for this- then the bill on unlimited immigration?

They They answer: "Yes." They say: "Okay, here it is." 15 guys who want to live in your house" . And people are like: "No, no, they cannot live in "my house." What are you, what Do you mean? It was called...In another era we called it "limousine" liberals", and this manifested when they used—what was quite offensive, but quite effectively— when they took immigrants and took them away buses on Marthas- Vineyard or other places with the words: " "Here are your immigrants." You said you wanted to.

their. What Rob Henderson calls "luxurious" beliefs." You know, luxurious belief, limousine liberals. You know, if look at problems in France, they are not quite unsolvable. Many complaints, I think, time-related waiting in hospitals. Well, you have free medicine . Oh, you know, correlation students.

Well, you pay only 300 euros per year for studying in colleges. If you want to change ratio of 60 to 1 in 30 to 1, okay, you will have to pay 2000 euros per year. No, you won't have to. No, You won't have to. You don't need more of them take. That's the point. The point is that when bureaucracy inflates, quality services is falling.

Smart a person will look at this bloated one bureaucracy and will say: " This is reversed. in proportion to that, "What did I expect?" So actually it would be a little to happen that in there were enough people mind to say: " Wait a minute. "a minute." "I am now I spend 57 cents on every dollar gross product per the government, which is now increased my queues and worsened correlation students and teachers.

Something won't happen here. effective. So, no effectively, completely right. That's right. But the friend part of what I am wanted to say, is that in Europe for a long time measures are in place austerity. But if you have a level immigration is 1.5% of the population per year, and your GDP is not growing, it could be a signal for you, that maybe time to change the approach.

And if the people you you let into the country, are not productive or have not yet such, perhaps, their the children will be productive, or their children's children, but now they are a burden for society. You you can only accept a certain amount people, and there is another one nuance: you can't accept those who are not seeks to assimilate in the culture of this countries.

Point. End of conversation. You you can have a lot small amount people, regardless of moreover, Japan is, United States or France. You can to accept into the country only limited the number of people who don't talk in your native language, because it becomes incredible burden. After all, now you need to create a whole the second education system, security system health, where people are talking in Spanish, in French, in German or any in what other language?

And this exactly what makes these difficult I think one of 19—from North Africa , and approximately one of nine—immigrant. AND in Europe they have uncontrolled immigration. This is still one part of this problems. If this not been there for the last 20 years, and they are not added so much of little value immigrants on counterweight highly valuable— highly valued are people with academic degrees, who invest in companies, not those who occupies low-paid positions, —and if you started to evaluate it with considering the country's GDP, unemployment and the conformity of Where exactly is this immigrant?

suitable for working people places that we needed? So, is we need one like this employee? Builder? Yes, okay, we should add more like this, because we have a deficit. But they do it it's stupid, and that's concerns that women who manage their own a small shop. She wants to allow to all these people to come, but she didn't looks at the balance, and the balance of this is not supports.

I will simplify. it. I think that this economic problem. Yes. Just so to paraphrase what you said a little otherwise: if you provide social services immigrant to the population, then it is not necessarily productive population that can promote growth economy and support Yes. civil society. Social services, necessary immigrants, have to testify that this probably not that the population you Do you want to accept?

This has nothing to do with it. in common with countries or the character of people, skin color, This is a simple statement: if you pay for social services for support immigrants, so something is wrong, and this is not the one a group of people who you needed. But if are arriving productive immigrants, that is they can find work, work and to provide for oneself, this means that they add something positive to economy and civil society, and it such criteria selection have apply.

So, it's simple. system for determining whether it's worth doing, and easy way solve the problem— cancel it social services for immigrants. As only you cancel social services for immigrants, you automatically choose the right one part of the population, who will come to us. The second point, Jason, to to clarify: it's not about assimilation into society, and in sharing values ​​that do the United United States States.

What do I mean? Value self-sufficiency; I don't care about yours. religious views, your tastes in movies or your native language, I...I am interested. your sports preferences. Multiculturalism United States actually brings an incredible amount benefits. But values —what is really for Are we important?

Which principles we all have we divide as civil society United States or France? This is a criterion selection, which seems to was rejected when we allowed the streams immigrants actually to conquer the West. Yes. freedom of speech? Or Do you believe in the Friend? amendment? Do you believe? you in the main advantages America?

You yourself are you succeeding? own women's rights? Or Do you believe that women equal to men? Yes. As a simple example, isn't that right? Do you believe? you, what do you need make money by one's own labor, not take them from the state? Do you believe in yours? individual rights? Do you believe in individual in the legal system compared with religious legal system?

Is your church higher than the government and the laws of the state? And whether Do you believe that others people have rights that you have no right trample? These are the things which in many cases contradict cultural, religious and other traditional the beliefs of certain population groups that ultimately causes harm West.

And I think that it was somehow completely lost in the process. You know what I thought, when I heard how he the guy is talking about persecution of these Chinese? This is strange. kind of reminds me of maybe a little disorganized, but "bottom-up" version Kristallnacht, where Yes. you had, of course, looting Jewish enterprises and synagogues in 1938.

Because they were more successful. Which were supported by the state. And you know, they had some idiotic excuses, but in the end it was because they envied the Jews. AND now you see people , which are actually burn and loot business, and at least certain small percent of them did this is to attack a group of people who they are jealous.

And they are jealous precisely because what did you say because I don't think the Chinese , you know, they emigrate to countries with such long-term looks. They They say: "Let go" me on the field, coach. Come on, replace me. I ready to play." They are entrepreneurs and want to achieve more. They are hardworking.

They extremely persistent. That's right. And therefore the contrast is like this striking when you see, as one immigrant essentially says "C'est pas juste", what is his way to say: "This is unfair. "What similar to behavior a capricious child. Yes. You know, on the one hand We have capricious children, and on the other— hardworking immigrants.

They both immigrants. It the craziest dichotomy. I have on I mean, I see it in real life. Violence immigrant vs. immigrant, because one works harder, has the best plan, applies efforts and probably works seven days a week 12 hours a week, to make your own business is successful. Her her specific history even more I was talking about that one.

Chinese woman. Yes. Not about Yes, the Chinese one. a woman. Because they came and told her story, she worked, you know, she is essentially worked in restaurants for 34 years, to earn money on opening your own restaurant. Yes. I grew up in restaurant business . Let me say, This is the hardest thing for the family.

—manage a business, because when someone doesn't goes to work or there is no money, you everyone just has to work. My family, we all worked in restaurant. My mother, my mother did desserts in our restaurant because I wanted to save money. AND she was a nurse, not a confectioner. Yes. And you know, my brothers and I, we worked in restaurant with six or seven years old.

We tables were set. We polished the table silver. We worked in the kitchen at 10 [ __ ] times years and still lived from salary to salaries. And then you you come and burn this business? You you come and burn my father's business? We will open fire. My father was armed, you know? That is, he carried a weapon.

. And you do it in America? You do this in Texas? You will be shot. And I am, when I saw those poor Chinese people balcony, you know, theirs life in danger, all their property, I just thought:" Dude, I wish I could these people had pistols. "I wanted b, so that these people have was a weapon for protection of one's own private property.

This is just madness, that they could be like that crush, and they could have died. There is quite real the probability that when the crowd arrives to such a state, he can kill people. They will kill them until death, as it were poor owner shopkeeper who was beaten feet while he tried to protect your little one business, my little one shop.

If you been to Paris, then saw these tiny, wonderful, special shops where people trying to earn for the life of one's own favorite thing. It just tears heart, and you know it ...it... And I will say this: " "bond avengers" should appear here and conduct a tough border. I think they have to break their spine to the French government.

Here, please. Here You have a mandate. And you need to do this. strictly and immediately. 6-7%—what will it give? 6-7%for these bonds? I think it is necessary. raise the stakes for France somewhere up to 8% and just break them. Yes, and then suddenly tough measures economy, immigration and everything else will be to be perceived as much more serious.

At least all of this will be on the table, and they will have to understand. Them will have to decide, What are they ready for? refuse. But now, if possible skip this one moment, these problems will continue to escalate, and this powder keg, which, again, recalling the analogy with " "Kristallnacht", we know what to do can lead to such chain of events in kindling social anger.

Not can it be allowed that this happened, so the government obliged now stop it in structural embryo by. And I think that people have responsibility understand digital a reality in which they live. They live in a country that spends more than any communist utopia, which they are hoped to achieve. But the results unsatisfactory, and this means that the system broken, and it needs to be fixed reboot.

Since the government does not will do this independently, " "bond avengers" have to do this for them. Such things, if they continue accrue, extremely, extremely dangerous. Yes, very dangerous. Although we had similar outbreaks. So we definitely won't get away with this insured. We- larger group of 50 states.

By the way, It seems to be in France. maximum bet tax reaches almost 56 %. Maybe 55 or 56. The only place in Europe, where it seems higher—this Denmark, there maximum tax rate about 60%. It doesn't matter. Raise it to 90%. Nothing. It will get better, friends. Do what you want. If the state provides service, there will be no innovation, no efficiency.

It it just is, it is. individual human incentive to succeed—without nothing to him will improve. So, capitalism in on its basis. AND You know, the thing is, that Macron also tried to develop there is capitalism. It was a significant part its click on this image here or on this is a link. What do we see here?

I mean, this is still one indicator that why GDP growth inhibited. But this tax receipt in percentage of GDP. So, France too tops the list for tax revenues in as a percentage of GDP—46%. That is, every dollar of GDP , created by the country, going as state tax receipt. Obviously There are two factors here: high taxes rates or low GDP, high GDP and we we have No, it's just a tax, because the tax rate— it is always a function income.

The point is that if combine this with another, you will receive confiscation government, who controls the majority economy, which leads to extremely harmful consequences. Here is a logical one for you. connection, and nowhere here You won't hide. This is a question for United States: in Which direction are you going?

Do you want to move? You Do you want to move? up or down the graphics on both diagrams that we considered? In which Which way do you want to go? Because quality of life gets worse when you moving up the graphics, for everyone people, and the ability to progress is being destroyed, when you get up above.

And when you moving down the graphics, ability every person to progress in life is improving. You have to do this alone, you must to be more independent, but your ability improve your life is growing. When tax receipt as percentage of GDP are decreasing, and government spending as percentage of GDP are falling, yours opportunities as personalities that are the basis of the foundation of this great country, are growing.

And this is actually the one The North Star, about which we all must to say: how are we go back there? As we continue move back in this direction on graphics? And there is quite practical things. THERE ARE very simple steps, which can be done. Wait. Wait. Wait. Open schedule again and I'll quit you small challenge.

I think that most people in America, especially young people don't believe in that What are you saying? If look at the USA, then in front of them are located Australia, Argentina, South Korea, Japan, Brazil, Canada, Great Britain Britain, Germany, Italy, France— most people want to live in these countries that are higher than us.

Majority Americans who now they complain, definitely want to live in one of these countries, have medical maintenance and affordable college. I disagree. Oh, you don't agree with that, that the majority Americans are not want a common health care? No, no, no. Majority Americans are not want to live in the country, what is above us in this list.

Absolutely not. Well, they definitely don't. want to be below us: in South Africa, Russia, Turkey, China, Mexico, India, Indonesia or the rest of them. I have been to every country. from this list, which stands above us. I spent a lot of time there time. I was citizen of one I wouldn't choose any of them.

none of them. Jason, Do you know which one? unemployment rate among young people in Brazil? Uh, Brazil...I don't know. . I'll try to guess—20%. Unemployment among youth in Brazil is about 15-16 %. Yes, it's close to truth. And it is growing. And it is is growing. Almost 20%. IN The USA, fortunately, still below 10%.

Yes, now it is 8-9%. The same applies to many other countries. In many of these there are simply no countries growing economy